1
00:00:12,470 --> 00:00:09,589
[Music]

2
00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:12,480
this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

3
00:00:31,669 --> 00:00:14,610
spread

4
00:00:37,430 --> 00:00:34,630
welcome everyone to what i believe is

5
00:00:40,549 --> 00:00:37,440
going to be a historical episode here at

6
00:00:42,150 --> 00:00:40,559
somewhere in the skies i'm very honored

7
00:00:45,350 --> 00:00:42,160
to have today's guest i'm going to go

8
00:00:48,549 --> 00:00:45,360
through a an intro for him yet he needs

9
00:00:50,709 --> 00:00:48,559
no introduction but here we go anyways

10
00:00:53,670 --> 00:00:50,719
jacques valet is an internet pioneer

11
00:00:56,310 --> 00:00:53,680
computer scientist venture capitalist

12
00:00:59,029 --> 00:00:56,320
author ufologist and astronomer he's

13
00:01:01,029 --> 00:00:59,039
written over two dozen books on ufos and

14
00:01:03,750 --> 00:01:01,039
he was the inspiration for the french

15
00:01:06,710 --> 00:01:03,760
ufo researcher in steven spielberg's

16
00:01:09,190 --> 00:01:06,720
close encounters of the third kind movie

17
00:01:10,789 --> 00:01:09,200
he has investigated reports of ufos all

18
00:01:14,630 --> 00:01:10,799
over the world and has worked on related

19
00:01:16,070 --> 00:01:14,640
us and french government ufo projects he

20
00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:16,080
is currently working on a project to

21
00:01:21,030 --> 00:01:18,640
analyze ufo materials in highly

22
00:01:22,710 --> 00:01:21,040
credentialed laboratories and has

23
00:01:25,190 --> 00:01:22,720
recently come out with a new edition of

24
00:01:27,590 --> 00:01:25,200
his latest book trinity the best kept

25
00:01:30,630 --> 00:01:27,600
secret which covers a ufo crash that

26
00:01:33,030 --> 00:01:30,640
occurred prior to the roswell ufo crash

27
00:01:36,149 --> 00:01:33,040
so i'm really excited to talk to him all

28
00:01:39,510 --> 00:01:36,159
about that incident his new book and

29
00:01:42,390 --> 00:01:39,520
everything ufos so let's not waste any

30
00:01:45,830 --> 00:01:42,400
more time let's bring him in jacques

31
00:01:48,710 --> 00:01:45,840
valet welcome to somewhere in the skies

32
00:01:51,190 --> 00:01:48,720
good morning ryan and good morning or

33
00:01:53,510 --> 00:01:51,200
good evening i understand you're

34
00:01:57,749 --> 00:01:53,520
on the other side of the world

35
00:01:59,670 --> 00:01:57,759
um yes yes i'd like to speak with you

36
00:02:02,550 --> 00:01:59,680
thank you thank you and like i said jock

37
00:02:05,109 --> 00:02:02,560
um this is a dream come true for me um

38
00:02:07,510 --> 00:02:05,119
as both a podcaster and a ufo researcher

39
00:02:09,990 --> 00:02:07,520
so i appreciate you taking the time to

40
00:02:11,910 --> 00:02:10,000
do this uh we're going to cover a lot in

41
00:02:15,430 --> 00:02:11,920
the time that we do have with you here

42
00:02:18,229 --> 00:02:15,440
shock um but i guess before we even get

43
00:02:20,150 --> 00:02:18,239
you know to kind of the the main focus

44
00:02:22,949 --> 00:02:20,160
of this conversation which is the

45
00:02:25,190 --> 00:02:22,959
trinity ufo crash um

46
00:02:27,589 --> 00:02:25,200
i'd love to know uh

47
00:02:30,470 --> 00:02:27,599
what do you what are you thinking and

48
00:02:32,390 --> 00:02:30,480
feeling in today's landscape of the ufo

49
00:02:34,470 --> 00:02:32,400
conversation i mean you've been doing

50
00:02:36,949 --> 00:02:34,480
this for a while and we've seen a lot

51
00:02:39,190 --> 00:02:36,959
change in the past few years do you

52
00:02:41,430 --> 00:02:39,200
think we're headed in a good direction

53
00:02:44,949 --> 00:02:41,440
what do you think of ufology today in

54
00:02:46,869 --> 00:02:44,959
2022 there are several questions but

55
00:02:49,190 --> 00:02:46,879
what i know

56
00:02:51,670 --> 00:02:49,200
but the main thing

57
00:02:53,110 --> 00:02:51,680
if i had to describe really my my

58
00:02:54,470 --> 00:02:53,120
feelings is

59
00:02:57,030 --> 00:02:54,480
a

60
00:02:58,869 --> 00:02:57,040
feeling of

61
00:02:59,750 --> 00:02:58,879
relief

62
00:03:04,470 --> 00:02:59,760
and

63
00:03:10,550 --> 00:03:07,750
humbled by what has happened with the

64
00:03:11,990 --> 00:03:10,560
the official recognition of the

65
00:03:14,710 --> 00:03:12,000
phenomenon

66
00:03:16,790 --> 00:03:14,720
this is uh something i've

67
00:03:19,589 --> 00:03:16,800
you know i've been

68
00:03:20,550 --> 00:03:19,599
lucky to live long enough to see this

69
00:03:21,990 --> 00:03:20,560
uh

70
00:03:24,550 --> 00:03:22,000
many of my

71
00:03:25,670 --> 00:03:24,560
mentors and and friends over the years

72
00:03:28,710 --> 00:03:25,680
are not

73
00:03:31,110 --> 00:03:28,720
have not seen that including dr heineck

74
00:03:33,830 --> 00:03:31,120
or i may michelle and so on who were

75
00:03:35,990 --> 00:03:33,840
hoping for the day when the government

76
00:03:36,949 --> 00:03:36,000
you know especially the u.s government

77
00:03:40,149 --> 00:03:36,959
of course

78
00:03:42,710 --> 00:03:40,159
would come out and recognize the

79
00:03:44,229 --> 00:03:42,720
reality of the problem

80
00:03:47,910 --> 00:03:44,239
as a

81
00:03:51,750 --> 00:03:47,920
problem

82
00:03:53,270 --> 00:03:51,760
so now um you know that day has come

83
00:03:55,110 --> 00:03:53,280
and it is

84
00:04:00,470 --> 00:03:55,120
irreversible

85
00:04:02,949 --> 00:04:00,480
have been waiting for that day including

86
00:04:04,949 --> 00:04:02,959
so many witnesses who were

87
00:04:07,589 --> 00:04:04,959
ridiculed were

88
00:04:09,190 --> 00:04:07,599
uh were attacked were you know in the

89
00:04:10,550 --> 00:04:09,200
press and

90
00:04:12,149 --> 00:04:10,560
everywhere

91
00:04:14,070 --> 00:04:12,159
and now

92
00:04:16,150 --> 00:04:14,080
we have to recognize that these people

93
00:04:17,990 --> 00:04:16,160
were telling the truth

94
00:04:20,550 --> 00:04:18,000
now the question is

95
00:04:22,550 --> 00:04:20,560
you know what what is the truth i mean

96
00:04:26,790 --> 00:04:22,560
it's up to us now to

97
00:04:29,189 --> 00:04:26,800
to to expand the research and it's again

98
00:04:33,189 --> 00:04:29,199
a humbling

99
00:04:34,870 --> 00:04:33,199
because they

100
00:04:37,270 --> 00:04:34,880
we don't have

101
00:04:40,830 --> 00:04:37,280
we have a lot of data

102
00:04:43,990 --> 00:04:40,840
very

103
00:04:46,870 --> 00:04:44,000
complex and we we need to bring in

104
00:04:49,590 --> 00:04:46,880
people and train them very quickly

105
00:04:51,430 --> 00:04:49,600
to help us so far the work that has been

106
00:04:54,230 --> 00:04:51,440
done has been done

107
00:04:56,950 --> 00:04:54,240
you know pretty much on a personal basis

108
00:04:59,270 --> 00:04:56,960
uh i would say on

109
00:05:01,590 --> 00:04:59,280
not exactly on an amateurish basis

110
00:05:04,629 --> 00:05:01,600
because a lot of resources have been

111
00:05:07,909 --> 00:05:04,639
brought into into the study but now we

112
00:05:11,430 --> 00:05:07,919
have to do it as a real science the the

113
00:05:12,629 --> 00:05:11,440
way uh you know harvard university is

114
00:05:16,870 --> 00:05:12,639
doing it

115
00:05:18,390 --> 00:05:16,880
uh with dr abhinav uh dr evil has

116
00:05:20,469 --> 00:05:18,400
as you know has

117
00:05:23,430 --> 00:05:20,479
deployed a

118
00:05:24,550 --> 00:05:23,440
project which is privately funded

119
00:05:26,710 --> 00:05:24,560
to

120
00:05:28,710 --> 00:05:26,720
analyze signals from

121
00:05:31,510 --> 00:05:28,720
a new space

122
00:05:34,070 --> 00:05:31,520
that can teach us something about you

123
00:05:35,670 --> 00:05:34,080
know what else is there that we haven't

124
00:05:38,550 --> 00:05:35,680
recognized before

125
00:05:42,150 --> 00:05:38,560
including objects like um

126
00:05:45,990 --> 00:05:42,160
that was passed by the earth a couple of

127
00:05:48,629 --> 00:05:46,000
years ago and was detected and now um

128
00:05:49,749 --> 00:05:48,639
his team has found that there were other

129
00:05:52,629 --> 00:05:49,759
cases

130
00:05:53,590 --> 00:05:52,639
like umuah that could be that could be

131
00:05:56,150 --> 00:05:53,600
study

132
00:05:59,350 --> 00:05:56,160
so that's that's a big

133
00:06:00,150 --> 00:05:59,360
big breakthrough it's a big step forward

134
00:06:05,270 --> 00:06:00,160
the

135
00:06:08,550 --> 00:06:05,280
look at materials

136
00:06:11,029 --> 00:06:08,560
and uh contrary to what people think

137
00:06:13,430 --> 00:06:11,039
that research has been going on

138
00:06:15,830 --> 00:06:13,440
for a long time starting with professor

139
00:06:19,590 --> 00:06:15,840
sturock at stanford

140
00:06:22,390 --> 00:06:19,600
who was also my my mentor in physics

141
00:06:24,629 --> 00:06:22,400
in uh solar physics

142
00:06:27,350 --> 00:06:24,639
and in astrophysics uh

143
00:06:31,510 --> 00:06:27,360
when when i was at stanford and we

144
00:06:33,350 --> 00:06:31,520
worked together on a few of those cases

145
00:06:36,550 --> 00:06:33,360
the

146
00:06:39,590 --> 00:06:36,560
professor stuart is still alive and

147
00:06:41,189 --> 00:06:39,600
active but he has somewhat retired from

148
00:06:43,909 --> 00:06:41,199
that and has

149
00:06:46,629 --> 00:06:43,919
given me has left with me a number of

150
00:06:49,430 --> 00:06:46,639
the samples he had collected including

151
00:06:50,790 --> 00:06:49,440
the famous ubertuba samples

152
00:06:52,150 --> 00:06:50,800
from brazil

153
00:06:54,870 --> 00:06:52,160
so

154
00:06:57,830 --> 00:06:54,880
dr gary nolan and i are

155
00:07:00,950 --> 00:06:57,840
picking up that research and we just

156
00:07:06,870 --> 00:07:03,749
uh refereed article in a major

157
00:07:09,909 --> 00:07:06,880
scientific journal about the the study

158
00:07:13,110 --> 00:07:09,919
of of one case in the in the american

159
00:07:14,950 --> 00:07:13,120
midwest yes so what you're saying uh

160
00:07:17,670 --> 00:07:14,960
showing is uh

161
00:07:18,710 --> 00:07:17,680
uh professor nolan and i uh

162
00:07:23,749 --> 00:07:18,720
taking

163
00:07:26,469 --> 00:07:23,759
sophisticated instrument that he and his

164
00:07:27,830 --> 00:07:26,479
team has invented at stanford so

165
00:07:29,990 --> 00:07:27,840
we the

166
00:07:31,830 --> 00:07:30,000
what is nice there is that we have the

167
00:07:34,710 --> 00:07:31,840
instrument and we have

168
00:07:36,469 --> 00:07:34,720
the the engineering team

169
00:07:38,950 --> 00:07:36,479
that has uh

170
00:07:39,990 --> 00:07:38,960
done the research and actually built the

171
00:07:43,110 --> 00:07:40,000
instrument

172
00:07:46,230 --> 00:07:43,120
so we're in a in a very uh

173
00:07:47,990 --> 00:07:46,240
lucky in a very fortunate situation

174
00:07:49,350 --> 00:07:48,000
thanks to his work and the work of this

175
00:07:50,550 --> 00:07:49,360
team in

176
00:07:54,629 --> 00:07:50,560
the

177
00:07:57,189 --> 00:07:54,639
designed for biology

178
00:07:59,350 --> 00:07:57,199
so the the benefit is that we can work

179
00:08:01,749 --> 00:07:59,360
with very very small

180
00:08:05,589 --> 00:08:01,759
amounts of material somebody was showing

181
00:08:08,390 --> 00:08:05,599
me a sample they had that

182
00:08:10,790 --> 00:08:08,400
that they would like analyzed by us and

183
00:08:13,510 --> 00:08:10,800
i said don't send me the sample keep it

184
00:08:16,230 --> 00:08:13,520
you know it's a potentially a treasure

185
00:08:18,070 --> 00:08:16,240
but we we just need a few grabs of

186
00:08:19,029 --> 00:08:18,080
material to

187
00:08:21,990 --> 00:08:19,039
to do

188
00:08:24,469 --> 00:08:22,000
an isotope analysis

189
00:08:27,110 --> 00:08:24,479
so jacques in terms of this current work

190
00:08:28,550 --> 00:08:27,120
you're doing with dr gary nolan uh what

191
00:08:30,710 --> 00:08:28,560
have been some of the most compelling

192
00:08:33,430 --> 00:08:30,720
findings with these materials that you

193
00:08:35,269 --> 00:08:33,440
both have looked at has anything really

194
00:08:38,389 --> 00:08:35,279
screamed to you that we're not dealing

195
00:08:41,190 --> 00:08:38,399
with something that was

196
00:08:42,630 --> 00:08:41,200
you know manufactured here on earth or

197
00:08:44,949 --> 00:08:42,640
what are we talking about with some of

198
00:08:47,190 --> 00:08:44,959
these if you don't mind sharing i think

199
00:08:49,110 --> 00:08:47,200
at the first level

200
00:08:52,470 --> 00:08:49,120
the main thing that

201
00:08:56,150 --> 00:08:52,480
scientific analysis can do is validate

202
00:08:57,910 --> 00:08:56,160
the testimony of the human witnesses who

203
00:09:00,070 --> 00:08:57,920
bring this to us

204
00:09:01,910 --> 00:09:00,080
because if

205
00:09:04,310 --> 00:09:01,920
you know chemical

206
00:09:05,670 --> 00:09:04,320
a chemical even a complex chemical can

207
00:09:08,710 --> 00:09:05,680
be faked

208
00:09:09,750 --> 00:09:08,720
uh people have done that

209
00:09:12,310 --> 00:09:09,760
and

210
00:09:13,910 --> 00:09:12,320
so there is always a hesitation

211
00:09:16,870 --> 00:09:13,920
you know about

212
00:09:23,269 --> 00:09:16,880
about what you can what you can do with

213
00:09:41,590 --> 00:09:24,550
the

214
00:09:44,310 --> 00:09:41,600
we have now instruments that allow us to

215
00:09:47,269 --> 00:09:44,320
uh to validate what the witness is

216
00:09:48,470 --> 00:09:47,279
telling us in a way that cannot be

217
00:09:51,509 --> 00:09:48,480
faked

218
00:09:53,269 --> 00:09:51,519
now suppose that we do that and we find

219
00:09:54,070 --> 00:09:53,279
a difference in

220
00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:54,080
uh

221
00:09:59,110 --> 00:09:57,360
you know in isotope ratios

222
00:10:01,829 --> 00:09:59,120
uh people immediately jump to the

223
00:10:04,790 --> 00:10:01,839
conclusion that would mean that we have

224
00:10:06,790 --> 00:10:04,800
an extraterrestrial material well that's

225
00:10:08,070 --> 00:10:06,800
not true

226
00:10:12,150 --> 00:10:08,080
that

227
00:10:14,230 --> 00:10:12,160
more questions

228
00:10:16,310 --> 00:10:14,240
you know there's always a problem with

229
00:10:18,710 --> 00:10:16,320
science you you go to a scientist you

230
00:10:20,949 --> 00:10:18,720
expect to have a question the scientist

231
00:10:22,710 --> 00:10:20,959
does you know the best

232
00:10:25,190 --> 00:10:22,720
analysis he can do

233
00:10:27,910 --> 00:10:25,200
and he answers one question and then he

234
00:10:31,030 --> 00:10:27,920
raises five more so i think we have

235
00:10:33,829 --> 00:10:31,040
people have to be to get used to that

236
00:10:37,110 --> 00:10:33,839
the the problem is that

237
00:10:38,870 --> 00:10:37,120
of course uh isotope ratios are going to

238
00:10:40,470 --> 00:10:38,880
be the same

239
00:10:41,829 --> 00:10:40,480
pretty much throughout the known

240
00:10:44,550 --> 00:10:41,839
universe

241
00:10:45,829 --> 00:10:44,560
so if you bring me a stone from the moon

242
00:10:48,470 --> 00:10:45,839
which we have

243
00:10:50,870 --> 00:10:48,480
are a stone from mouse

244
00:10:54,150 --> 00:10:50,880
which we also have because there are

245
00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:54,160
some meteorites that were the product of

246
00:10:57,190 --> 00:10:55,040
uh

247
00:10:59,190 --> 00:10:57,200
you know a meteor hitting mars and

248
00:11:02,550 --> 00:10:59,200
ejecting materials so

249
00:11:05,269 --> 00:11:02,560
on earth we find a few pieces of

250
00:11:07,269 --> 00:11:05,279
you know mineral that come have been

251
00:11:08,949 --> 00:11:07,279
ejected from mars

252
00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:08,959
you're going to do

253
00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:11,120
the the isotopic analysis you're going

254
00:11:15,750 --> 00:11:13,680
to find pretty much the same ratios

255
00:11:18,230 --> 00:11:15,760
as you would find if you picked up a

256
00:11:20,710 --> 00:11:18,240
stone from your garment so

257
00:11:23,990 --> 00:11:20,720
so that doesn't solve the problem

258
00:11:26,949 --> 00:11:24,000
the the problem is

259
00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:26,959
becomes interesting when you can see

260
00:11:36,389 --> 00:11:33,430
significantly altered

261
00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:36,399
for a reason for purpose

262
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:40,640
uh of course here on earth we do that

263
00:11:45,829 --> 00:11:42,880
with uh uranium

264
00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:45,839
to make atomic bombs so we started doing

265
00:11:49,509 --> 00:11:46,800
that

266
00:11:51,829 --> 00:11:49,519
on pretty much an industrial scale at

267
00:11:54,710 --> 00:11:51,839
the end of world war ii that's how the

268
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:54,720
atomic bomb was created and that's how

269
00:12:01,269 --> 00:11:57,760
you know that the nuclear physics has

270
00:12:03,509 --> 00:12:01,279
developed in nuclear energy and so on so

271
00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:03,519
we we know how to do that

272
00:12:09,269 --> 00:12:06,079
it's extraordinarily expensive

273
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:09,279
and you would not expect to find a

274
00:12:14,870 --> 00:12:12,720
sample after a ufo case

275
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:14,880
you know in in your field if you're a

276
00:12:19,269 --> 00:12:18,240
farmer that would show abnormal isotope

277
00:12:21,509 --> 00:12:19,279
ratios

278
00:12:24,629 --> 00:12:21,519
so if that happens

279
00:12:26,629 --> 00:12:24,639
it means that somebody has a very

280
00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:26,639
advanced technology

281
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:29,680
that they have mastered that produces

282
00:12:36,310 --> 00:12:33,279
altered isotope ratios for a

283
00:12:39,430 --> 00:12:36,320
reason for a purpose that's that's a you

284
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:39,440
know a technical or a scientific reason

285
00:12:43,750 --> 00:12:41,519
so that would be very interesting that

286
00:12:46,069 --> 00:12:43,760
would be a breakthrough now we thought

287
00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:46,079
we had gotten close to that with the

288
00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:47,519
ubatuba

289
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:49,760
uh brazil case

290
00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:52,399
uh there is some question about that and

291
00:12:58,870 --> 00:12:55,680
we have a number of samples yet to be

292
00:13:02,069 --> 00:12:58,880
analyzed and that's part of our research

293
00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:02,079
program other other teams have also

294
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:04,000
done analysis

295
00:13:10,389 --> 00:13:06,720
and they replicated the analysis by dr

296
00:13:11,509 --> 00:13:10,399
sterop and we we expect to do that uh as

297
00:13:12,629 --> 00:13:11,519
well

298
00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:12,639
the

299
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:15,760
published

300
00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:16,720
there was

301
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:18,720
you know is a case that happened in the

302
00:13:24,790 --> 00:13:22,480
midwest near omaha nebraska on the iowa

303
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:24,800
side of nebraska on the other side of

304
00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:26,000
the river

305
00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:27,760
and um

306
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:31,120
we we found a strange combination of

307
00:13:35,350 --> 00:13:34,000
things that the the sample resembles

308
00:13:37,590 --> 00:13:35,360
steel

309
00:13:39,190 --> 00:13:37,600
and we we know it couldn't be a hoax for

310
00:13:41,829 --> 00:13:39,200
a number of reasons

311
00:13:44,629 --> 00:13:41,839
uh the the great thing about that case

312
00:13:46,069 --> 00:13:44,639
is that we have we we know the names of

313
00:13:48,949 --> 00:13:46,079
all the witnesses

314
00:13:52,230 --> 00:13:48,959
the police was there within 30 minutes

315
00:13:55,190 --> 00:13:52,240
the fire man was there within 30 minutes

316
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:55,200
we have the polaroid photographs taken

317
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:58,320
by the police we have the testimony of

318
00:14:03,990 --> 00:14:00,959
the firemen and we know the names of all

319
00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:04,000
the there is about a dozen witnesses

320
00:14:09,189 --> 00:14:06,320
scattered over an area of about 10

321
00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:09,199
square miles and we know where they were

322
00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:11,519
and we know what they saw they saw an

323
00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:14,560
object in the sky with rotating lights

324
00:14:21,430 --> 00:14:19,600
that went away and they found a mass of

325
00:14:24,150 --> 00:14:21,440
molten steel

326
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:24,160
that essentially was dripping down a

327
00:14:29,750 --> 00:14:27,760
levee in a park outside omaha

328
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:29,760
there is no explanation for that you

329
00:14:35,910 --> 00:14:32,240
know this was in the middle of december

330
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:35,920
the temperature was below zero um

331
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:37,519
in fact the the

332
00:14:40,629 --> 00:14:39,519
the water that was put on it was

333
00:14:41,670 --> 00:14:40,639
freezing

334
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:41,680
uh

335
00:14:45,189 --> 00:14:44,079
instantly there was no explanation for

336
00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:45,199
how

337
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:47,760
you could do that as a hoax i mean this

338
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:50,560
so everything about the case is known

339
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:51,360
and

340
00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:56,000
what the witnesses have been telling the

341
00:15:00,150 --> 00:14:57,360
police and

342
00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:00,160
and the the fire department

343
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:03,120
now that's that's uh an extraordinarily

344
00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:05,120
well documented case

345
00:15:12,069 --> 00:15:08,560
you know in in much of ufology you find

346
00:15:14,790 --> 00:15:12,079
stories that somebody saw something that

347
00:15:17,189 --> 00:15:14,800
cannot tell the name of the witness and

348
00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:17,199
that isn't clear about the date and it

349
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:20,000
may or may not have i know including

350
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:22,320
roswell i mean roswell look how long it

351
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:23,120
took

352
00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:23,920
for

353
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:26,639
you know the names of the real witnesses

354
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:28,800
come out and there's still some

355
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:30,880
discrepancy and nobody was there at the

356
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:33,360
site at the time of roswell you know

357
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:36,880
that the site was discovered later on

358
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:38,639
so

359
00:15:44,790 --> 00:15:42,320
where we had

360
00:15:48,550 --> 00:15:44,800
we could document completely the human

361
00:15:51,269 --> 00:15:48,560
testimony and the material uh there is

362
00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:51,279
no way to bring uh you know half a ton

363
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:53,040
of molten steel

364
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:56,160
to a place like this on a beautiful

365
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:58,720
evening in nebraska

366
00:16:01,430 --> 00:15:59,600
you know

367
00:16:03,269 --> 00:16:01,440
with a truck i mean

368
00:16:04,629 --> 00:16:03,279
or drop it over there

369
00:16:06,550 --> 00:16:04,639
that's not

370
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:06,560
so

371
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:08,880
the composition is

372
00:16:13,990 --> 00:16:11,680
relatively normal from a chemical point

373
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:14,000
of view it's not exactly the kind of

374
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:16,800
steel that you'd expect you know in in

375
00:16:21,829 --> 00:16:19,440
industry but it has the same general

376
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:21,839
composition of steel and the isotope

377
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:24,000
ratios are normal

378
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:28,320
so uh that paper took four years to

379
00:16:33,030 --> 00:16:30,399
to develop i mean the the analysis

380
00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:33,040
itself we've read it several times on

381
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:35,600
several machines okay including the

382
00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:37,600
machine that you've seen you know

383
00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:41,279
invented by dr nolan's team at stanford

384
00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:42,240
so

385
00:16:45,670 --> 00:16:44,320
we're pretty sure of the ratios we've

386
00:16:47,430 --> 00:16:45,680
published

387
00:16:49,350 --> 00:16:47,440
in fact we're very sure

388
00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:49,360
uh having done it on different

389
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:50,560
instruments

390
00:16:55,189 --> 00:16:52,959
and uh the

391
00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:55,199
we answered a number of questions from

392
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:56,959
the meteorologists who

393
00:17:01,829 --> 00:16:59,920
surveyed the paper and you know approved

394
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:01,839
the paper

395
00:17:06,150 --> 00:17:04,720
it's published in the leading uh journal

396
00:17:09,750 --> 00:17:06,160
of of

397
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:09,760
uh astronautics uh in the world so

398
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:11,280
uh it's

399
00:17:14,949 --> 00:17:13,199
the important thing about that article

400
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:14,959
is that it opens

401
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:18,079
a boulevard it opens an avenue for other

402
00:17:23,350 --> 00:17:21,120
people to publish now in

403
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:23,360
recognized scientific journals which

404
00:17:26,710 --> 00:17:25,439
have always been closed as you know i

405
00:17:30,789 --> 00:17:26,720
mean it was

406
00:17:33,430 --> 00:17:30,799
dr heineck trying to publish articles in

407
00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:33,440
science magazine you know and other

408
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:35,120
people have tried to publish in the

409
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:38,240
landsat and then you know in nature in

410
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:39,360
other things

411
00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:41,919
uh but there has never been an article

412
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:44,320
like ours published in the scientific

413
00:17:47,669 --> 00:17:45,200
press

414
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:47,679
so this is a first and we're very proud

415
00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:50,480
of it and again we

416
00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:52,559
we think it's a gift to

417
00:17:57,190 --> 00:17:55,280
you know to the research community that

418
00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:57,200
we've we've opened that

419
00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:58,240
precedent

420
00:18:02,549 --> 00:18:00,559
and now people can submit

421
00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:02,559
scientific articles to

422
00:18:06,070 --> 00:18:04,080
top-tier

423
00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:06,080
scientific reviews

424
00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:08,640
and then it's up to them to decide

425
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:11,280
you know honestly as scientists

426
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:13,679
are they ready to publish

427
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:16,640
valid you know scientific analyses on

428
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:18,240
this subject

429
00:18:23,510 --> 00:18:21,360
and uh you know it's it's up to them

430
00:18:26,470 --> 00:18:23,520
the the burden is on

431
00:18:29,110 --> 00:18:26,480
but the science you know the science is

432
00:18:31,669 --> 00:18:29,120
is catching up

433
00:18:34,150 --> 00:18:31,679
finally yes it's exciting and like you

434
00:18:37,669 --> 00:18:34,160
said i think precedent is the key word

435
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:37,679
there it sets a standard for both the uh

436
00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:40,080
you know the ufo research field but also

437
00:18:43,990 --> 00:18:42,559
the scientific fields uh hard sciences

438
00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:44,000
soft sciences

439
00:18:47,669 --> 00:18:45,440
that's what i love about this topic

440
00:18:48,789 --> 00:18:47,679
shock is that you know

441
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,799
you can

442
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:50,480
mix all of the different sciences

443
00:18:56,789 --> 00:18:53,440
together and you can mix academia and

444
00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:56,799
history and religion and in science into

445
00:19:01,830 --> 00:18:59,760
the ufo topic and that's what drew me in

446
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:01,840
is you have this cross-cultural thing

447
00:19:06,870 --> 00:19:04,400
happening all over the place and people

448
00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:06,880
interpreting it completely differently

449
00:19:10,950 --> 00:19:08,400
which is a lot of the work you've done

450
00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:10,960
in the past as well is uh examining

451
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:12,240
those things

452
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:14,320
yes but it's also

453
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:17,440
you know it's also an obstacle because

454
00:19:22,870 --> 00:19:20,240
you know the the social and sociology

455
00:19:25,270 --> 00:19:22,880
department is at one end of the campus

456
00:19:27,909 --> 00:19:25,280
and the physics department is a mile

457
00:19:29,669 --> 00:19:27,919
away at the other end and they never

458
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:29,679
really meet you know maybe for a

459
00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:31,280
christmas party but that's the only

460
00:19:36,830 --> 00:19:34,720
thing so here we're bridging with it's

461
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:36,840
it's the ultimate

462
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:39,679
cross-disciplinary topic you know in in

463
00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:42,080
research so um

464
00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:43,600
you know the chemists like to do

465
00:19:48,789 --> 00:19:45,760
chemistry and the physicists like to do

466
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:48,799
physics and occasionally they cross over

467
00:19:54,549 --> 00:19:52,720
but not not very often and here we found

468
00:19:57,270 --> 00:19:54,559
we we thought we had done a really good

469
00:19:59,990 --> 00:19:57,280
job with our article we have all the

470
00:20:01,669 --> 00:20:00,000
analyses for chemical analyses and

471
00:20:03,909 --> 00:20:01,679
isotope analysis

472
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:03,919
and then we got a lot of

473
00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:06,640
tough questions from meteorologists

474
00:20:13,430 --> 00:20:10,080
now you know dr nolan is a very imminent

475
00:20:15,510 --> 00:20:13,440
biologist uh you know my my work has

476
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:15,520
been initially you know in the

477
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:18,400
industrial physics with professor stuart

478
00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:21,840
at stanford and also in texas but then

479
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:24,240
most of my career has been in computer

480
00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:27,200
science and and then in investing in

481
00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:30,400
technology so i have a fairly wide range

482
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:31,280
of

483
00:20:34,789 --> 00:20:33,360
you know

484
00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:34,799
information

485
00:20:41,029 --> 00:20:38,320
about the frontiers of technology today

486
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:41,039
but i really don't know much about the

487
00:20:43,830 --> 00:20:42,000
challenge

488
00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:43,840
it's not a field i've studied

489
00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:46,960
so we had to take

490
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:49,679
a number of tough questions and go over

491
00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:51,280
them one by one

492
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:54,480
uh to find people we could consult about

493
00:21:00,310 --> 00:20:57,840
the aspects of this the sample we have

494
00:21:03,430 --> 00:21:00,320
that we had analyzed so that you know

495
00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:03,440
that takes time and it takes uh

496
00:21:09,430 --> 00:21:06,000
good relationships you know across as

497
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:09,440
you said across disciplines

498
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:12,159
yeah yeah absolutely and i think again

499
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:13,679
we're going to see

500
00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:17,200
all different types uh of scientists and

501
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:19,440
and what not start to bridge those gaps

502
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:22,080
which is really exciting it really is um

503
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:24,480
and that kind of you know shocked traces

504
00:21:27,669 --> 00:21:25,840
to uh

505
00:21:30,230 --> 00:21:27,679
another topic i really wanted to talk to

506
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:30,240
you about when it comes to materials and

507
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:31,200
um

508
00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:34,960
you know craft in general and that is

509
00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:37,840
the trinity ufo case now for for those

510
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:40,000
of our our viewers our listeners who

511
00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:42,960
aren't familiar with this case uh would

512
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:45,600
you mind giving us kind of the overview

513
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:47,919
of trinity what it is how you got

514
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:50,720
personally involved with the case

515
00:21:55,430 --> 00:21:54,240
i got involved in it thanks to paula

516
00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:55,440
harris

517
00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:56,320
who

518
00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:00,159
is a long time student of history she

519
00:22:05,190 --> 00:22:02,080
comes from italy

520
00:22:07,909 --> 00:22:05,200
she has taught at the

521
00:22:10,630 --> 00:22:07,919
college level you know both in italy and

522
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:10,640
in the us

523
00:22:16,549 --> 00:22:13,600
and she's really passionate about

524
00:22:19,830 --> 00:22:16,559
applying that her view of history and

525
00:22:21,669 --> 00:22:19,840
her view of contemporary history to

526
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:21,679
this topic

527
00:22:24,789 --> 00:22:22,880
and

528
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:24,799
the

529
00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:30,000
well now simple

530
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:31,280
uh

531
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:34,159
is that the witnesses never spoke

532
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:37,200
now um the witnesses this happened in

533
00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:39,440
1945

534
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:42,320
um it happened one month

535
00:22:48,390 --> 00:22:45,360
to the day after the explosion of a

536
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:48,400
first atomic bomb 20 miles away from

537
00:22:53,110 --> 00:22:50,480
where the witnesses were

538
00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:53,120
the witnesses were children

539
00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:55,200
they were taking care of the ranch

540
00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:57,440
remember at that time all the adults

541
00:23:03,270 --> 00:22:59,520
were in uniform

542
00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:03,280
uh all the able-bodied you know men and

543
00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:05,200
women had been deployed in the armed

544
00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:06,320
forces

545
00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:08,720
from the pacific all the way to berlin

546
00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:09,600
okay

547
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:10,320
and

548
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:11,039
the

549
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:12,000
uh

550
00:23:17,669 --> 00:23:14,960
the the task of taking care of farms and

551
00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:17,679
ranches and so on fell through

552
00:23:21,909 --> 00:23:20,080
teenagers and young kids

553
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:21,919
so those two kids were taking care of

554
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:24,240
the ranch taking care of the cattle that

555
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:27,440
was on on their family ranch

556
00:23:30,390 --> 00:23:29,039
and they

557
00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:30,400
saw

558
00:23:33,029 --> 00:23:31,679
an object

559
00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:33,039
arrive

560
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:36,320
the object hit a communication tower

561
00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:38,159
that was controlling

562
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:40,960
civilian communication on the north end

563
00:23:46,070 --> 00:23:42,960
of the trinity site

564
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,080
which is of course where the the bulb

565
00:23:52,149 --> 00:23:48,960
the first atom bomb was developed

566
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:52,159
and vetonated

567
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:52,960
in

568
00:23:57,830 --> 00:23:56,159
july 1945.

569
00:24:00,310 --> 00:23:57,840
so uh

570
00:24:03,909 --> 00:24:00,320
don't tell me it's not a historical date

571
00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:03,919
i mean the the bomb is detonated

572
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:06,240
the population had not been evacuated

573
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:09,440
because of course everything was secret

574
00:24:14,710 --> 00:24:12,240
and a month later this object arrives it

575
00:24:16,549 --> 00:24:14,720
hits this communication tower

576
00:24:20,789 --> 00:24:16,559
takes it out of

577
00:24:23,110 --> 00:24:20,799
communication and that makes a crash

578
00:24:26,149 --> 00:24:23,120
landing

579
00:24:27,669 --> 00:24:26,159
doesn't blow up in pieces like roswell

580
00:24:28,549 --> 00:24:27,679
or others

581
00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:28,559
um

582
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:30,799
the object is egg shaped

583
00:24:33,990 --> 00:24:32,400
in in the book in

584
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:34,000
this book trinity

585
00:24:39,110 --> 00:24:36,320
there is no flying salsa the term flying

586
00:24:41,269 --> 00:24:39,120
saucer is going to be invented by can i

587
00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:41,279
found out two years later

588
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:46,870
there is no air force there is no u.s

589
00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:49,919
air force uh of course the u.s

590
00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:52,320
america has airplanes and pilots but

591
00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:55,120
they are in army uniforms it's the army

592
00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:57,919
air force the air force is going to be

593
00:25:02,710 --> 00:25:00,559
created by president truman two years

594
00:25:05,350 --> 00:25:02,720
later in 1947.

595
00:25:08,669 --> 00:25:05,360
there is no cia you know cia is going to

596
00:25:11,190 --> 00:25:08,679
be created two years later so we have an

597
00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:11,200
extraordinary historical

598
00:25:13,909 --> 00:25:12,840
occurrence here

599
00:25:15,510 --> 00:25:13,919
of a

600
00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:15,520
very complex

601
00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:17,840
large object

602
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:20,320
that we've determined must have weighted

603
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:22,880
between two and five tons

604
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:24,480
crash landing

605
00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:27,520
on a ranch in new mexico

606
00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:28,880
now

607
00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:32,400
in in the first edition of the book this

608
00:25:37,510 --> 00:25:35,440
is what you're showing the red edition

609
00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:37,520
is you know the new edition it's a

610
00:25:41,590 --> 00:25:39,120
revised edition

611
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:41,600
augmented with more more witnesses and

612
00:25:43,909 --> 00:25:43,120
more testimony

613
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:43,919
but

614
00:25:48,549 --> 00:25:46,080
in the first edition

615
00:25:49,830 --> 00:25:48,559
i i made the mistake of introducing the

616
00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:49,840
story

617
00:25:53,750 --> 00:25:51,600
because i was

618
00:25:55,029 --> 00:25:53,760
you know i was frankly

619
00:25:58,230 --> 00:25:55,039
charmed and

620
00:26:00,789 --> 00:25:58,240
taken by that of the two kids reporting

621
00:26:03,669 --> 00:26:00,799
this event from their point of view and

622
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:03,679
how it has changed their life

623
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:05,520
because when they came out

624
00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:08,640
they hadn't spoken for over 60 years

625
00:26:14,149 --> 00:26:10,320
and they came out because they were

626
00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:14,159
reconnected by you know an unrelated

627
00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:17,120
uh search on the internet they were

628
00:26:20,710 --> 00:26:19,200
reconnected and then they spoke about

629
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:20,720
their experience

630
00:26:26,630 --> 00:26:23,760
for the whole history of the phenomenon

631
00:26:27,909 --> 00:26:26,640
they didn't speak and nobody knew about

632
00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:27,919
the case

633
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:29,600
for another reason

634
00:26:33,350 --> 00:26:31,600
which is that the people who recovered

635
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:33,360
the craft

636
00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:35,600
never spoke either

637
00:26:40,149 --> 00:26:39,200
so as you know i've done work uh on

638
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:40,159
you know

639
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:42,320
the bigger old projects uh for a number

640
00:26:45,669 --> 00:26:43,679
of years

641
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:45,679
with with colleagues who had high

642
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:47,120
clearances

643
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:49,520
uh they never knew about this case

644
00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:52,080
because it was kept

645
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:55,679
by the clearances in the atomic sequence

646
00:27:00,390 --> 00:26:58,799
and we know that from other cases from

647
00:27:01,269 --> 00:27:00,400
other things that i described in the

648
00:27:02,630 --> 00:27:01,279
book

649
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:02,640
that the

650
00:27:09,430 --> 00:27:06,400
the classification system was not secret

651
00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:09,440
top secret sap and all that

652
00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:12,799
that we know from the pentagon type of

653
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:15,760
classification which is most of the

654
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:19,120
classification in the united states

655
00:27:25,830 --> 00:27:23,039
but by the atomic secrets there are rp

656
00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:25,840
and q classifications

657
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:28,640
that relate to the atom bomb and we also

658
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:32,320
know from good historical sources that

659
00:27:38,549 --> 00:27:35,760
the ufo subject on this side

660
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:38,559
of the administration

661
00:27:43,830 --> 00:27:40,960
is classified higher

662
00:27:48,549 --> 00:27:43,840
than the atomic bomb

663
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:48,559
now that explains why number one you

664
00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:50,480
have to have access to

665
00:27:55,190 --> 00:27:53,039
that system of classification which most

666
00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:55,200
people working in the pentagon do not

667
00:27:58,950 --> 00:27:57,520
because they don't deal with nuclear

668
00:28:01,430 --> 00:27:58,960
material

669
00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:01,440
only those that that do

670
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:04,240
deal with physics development in nuclear

671
00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:06,960
physics would have those clearances so

672
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:09,600
it's a very small number of people

673
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:11,120
compared to all the people who have

674
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:13,600
secret currencies for all kinds of other

675
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:16,320
projects including computers including

676
00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:17,919
space including

677
00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:20,320
missiles including all of that that has

678
00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:22,720
nothing to do with atomic of nuclear

679
00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:23,840
secrets

680
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:26,880
so that's why the the case when the case

681
00:28:31,510 --> 00:28:28,640
came out most

682
00:28:34,389 --> 00:28:31,520
of my colleagues in ufology and most of

683
00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:34,399
paula's you know uh colleagues said you

684
00:28:39,909 --> 00:28:36,880
must have made this up you've you've

685
00:28:40,950 --> 00:28:39,919
invented this you know this is not real

686
00:28:43,190 --> 00:28:40,960
you know

687
00:28:46,310 --> 00:28:43,200
talk to us about roswell i mean roswell

688
00:28:48,870 --> 00:28:46,320
is real but this this case you just made

689
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:48,880
up out of thin air well i think now

690
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:51,279
people have realized with the the weight

691
00:28:55,510 --> 00:28:52,720
of data

692
00:28:58,630 --> 00:28:55,520
that we've brought so in in this new

693
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:58,640
version of the book i've corrected that

694
00:29:01,510 --> 00:28:59,840
mistake

695
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:01,520
the first witness

696
00:29:07,430 --> 00:29:04,960
was a very senior bomber pilot name we

697
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:07,440
know his name his name is bravi

698
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:10,080
b-r-o-t-h-y

699
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:12,320
who was coming in for a landing at

700
00:29:17,909 --> 00:29:15,440
alamogordo alamogordo is the the air

701
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:17,919
base in the middle of white sands which

702
00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:19,600
is an enormous

703
00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:22,799
desert of you know white desert

704
00:29:28,190 --> 00:29:24,559
where the atomic bomb

705
00:29:29,909 --> 00:29:28,200
uh detonation took place in 19 in july

706
00:29:32,789 --> 00:29:29,919
1945.

707
00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:32,799
so um he's coming in for a landing with

708
00:29:39,830 --> 00:29:36,000
a b-25 which is uh was a

709
00:29:41,909 --> 00:29:39,840
wonderful you know uh bomber in the

710
00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:41,919
in most of world war ii

711
00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:44,559
and he's he's coming in for a landing

712
00:29:48,789 --> 00:29:46,240
the tower calls him

713
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:48,799
and says can you as you fly over this

714
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:50,559
communication tower

715
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:52,320
can you tell us what's wrong because

716
00:29:56,789 --> 00:29:54,720
we've lost communication with so he

717
00:29:58,310 --> 00:29:56,799
circles the tower he sees that the tower

718
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:58,320
is being bent

719
00:30:03,669 --> 00:30:00,960
by you know an impact of something it's

720
00:30:05,830 --> 00:30:03,679
not communicating anymore

721
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:05,840
the tower is one of three towers that

722
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:08,399
direct airplanes including civilian

723
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:11,120
airplanes around the atomic

724
00:30:13,909 --> 00:30:12,640
classified

725
00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:13,919
area

726
00:30:16,710 --> 00:30:15,360
so

727
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:16,720
it's important that they've lost

728
00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:19,520
communication with it of course

729
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:24,080
and then he sees some smoke in the

730
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:25,760
uh you know in the bushes in the

731
00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:27,360
vegetation

732
00:30:33,029 --> 00:30:30,640
describes that there is something

733
00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:33,039
that's burning in the

734
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:36,960
in the grass and in the cactus there

735
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:38,640
actually it's not burning i mean the

736
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:40,880
cactus is burning the vegetation is

737
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:43,520
burning the object is intact

738
00:30:48,789 --> 00:30:46,240
and it's a novel like you showed it's an

739
00:30:51,909 --> 00:30:48,799
egg shaped the kids of course speak

740
00:30:55,669 --> 00:30:51,919
spanish and they call it an avocado

741
00:30:58,310 --> 00:30:55,679
so it has a shape of an of of an avocado

742
00:31:01,669 --> 00:30:58,320
it's a size of two trucks

743
00:31:05,190 --> 00:31:01,679
it's about 15 feet high

744
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:05,200
the floor is flat now we have

745
00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:07,360
one surviving witness that i've gotten

746
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:09,360
to know very well

747
00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:11,600
mr padilla who was a

748
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:13,679
long time

749
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:15,919
california

750
00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:19,919
highway patrol officer uh after fighting

751
00:31:23,110 --> 00:31:22,320
in korea he has two bullets in his body

752
00:31:26,310 --> 00:31:23,120
and

753
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:26,320
that the surgeons don't want to remove

754
00:31:28,310 --> 00:31:27,360
the

755
00:31:29,669 --> 00:31:28,320
his

756
00:31:30,470 --> 00:31:29,679
very

757
00:31:34,070 --> 00:31:30,480
uh

758
00:31:34,870 --> 00:31:34,080
a very great observer

759
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:34,880
uh

760
00:31:37,509 --> 00:31:36,640
and very

761
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:37,519
you know

762
00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:39,840
profoundly

763
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:42,960
impacted by what he saw as a kid and

764
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:44,880
the fact that these people kept that

765
00:31:49,750 --> 00:31:47,840
secret and in those days

766
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:49,760
you know you you have to go back to the

767
00:31:55,350 --> 00:31:52,480
days of of world war ii when nobody

768
00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:55,360
spoke there are still posters in the

769
00:32:00,149 --> 00:31:57,840
restaurants around that area that say

770
00:32:02,310 --> 00:32:00,159
you know from that time they'd say you

771
00:32:05,029 --> 00:32:02,320
see something you don't talk

772
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:05,039
okay let let the army deal with it

773
00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:06,720
and that's what they did

774
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:08,480
you know with this

775
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:12,399
avocado that fell in on their ranch

776
00:32:18,310 --> 00:32:14,559
there is no way that's a hoax

777
00:32:19,269 --> 00:32:18,320
and uh for you know in the book i've

778
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:19,279
um

779
00:32:23,509 --> 00:32:21,360
again you know my

780
00:32:26,549 --> 00:32:23,519
my contribution here

781
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:26,559
is to look for patterns among all the

782
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:29,440
cases we have

783
00:32:34,389 --> 00:32:32,960
as part of the classified bas you know

784
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:34,399
a-tip project

785
00:32:38,110 --> 00:32:37,360
i was in charge of designing a database

786
00:32:41,509 --> 00:32:38,120
so

787
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:41,519
260 000 cases from all over the world

788
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:44,480
which is a high water mark in terms of

789
00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:47,360
ai being applied to databases in this

790
00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:50,080
field yeah and uh

791
00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:53,200
so i the purpose of building that data

792
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:55,760
warehouse if you will is to look for

793
00:33:01,750 --> 00:32:58,559
correlations from cases all over the

794
00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:01,760
world well we have two other cases that

795
00:33:05,269 --> 00:33:03,760
are well known that are in the books you

796
00:33:09,669 --> 00:33:05,279
have on your shelf

797
00:33:11,269 --> 00:33:09,679
that also have an oval object also have

798
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:11,279
small creatures

799
00:33:16,230 --> 00:33:14,240
that breathe our air you know they don't

800
00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:16,240
they don't have a spacesuit

801
00:33:20,230 --> 00:33:18,480
no they they have some sort of overalls

802
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:20,240
but they breathe air

803
00:33:25,190 --> 00:33:22,399
they are the same size they are about

804
00:33:29,029 --> 00:33:25,200
three feet tall exactly what the kids

805
00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:29,039
are telling us at you know at trinity

806
00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:32,720
the case at valencia in france 19 first

807
00:33:39,350 --> 00:33:35,760
or august 1st 1965

808
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:39,360
and the case in socorro new mexico

809
00:33:46,389 --> 00:33:43,360
valencia and socorro are in the ufo

810
00:33:48,789 --> 00:33:46,399
files but they were not investigated by

811
00:33:50,470 --> 00:33:48,799
amateurs they were investigated by

812
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:50,480
government agencies

813
00:33:57,110 --> 00:33:54,720
agencies of the united states

814
00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:57,120
uh in the case of socorro if you

815
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:59,279
remember there were

816
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:01,200
there was a week of investigations at

817
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:04,080
the site there were fbi people who were

818
00:34:08,710 --> 00:34:06,399
there not about the case

819
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:08,720
because it was a local case not a

820
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:12,159
general case but they were there helping

821
00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:15,200
protect the traces and so on with the

822
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:18,720
fbi guidelines and they helped interview

823
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:21,599
the witness main witness who was a

824
00:34:27,669 --> 00:34:25,200
policeman in uniform who was

825
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:27,679
intrigued by this the sound and this

826
00:34:31,990 --> 00:34:29,760
object that had disappeared over the

827
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:32,000
desert and then he confronted it and

828
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:34,879
confronted two beings who were again

829
00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:38,879
short breathed our air head overalls and

830
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:40,960
then re-entered the object of the object

831
00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:42,079
took off

832
00:34:48,310 --> 00:34:45,440
that was carried as unidentified

833
00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:48,320
in the air force lives therefore sent

834
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:50,720
three investigators there including

835
00:34:56,069 --> 00:34:53,520
finally dr heineck

836
00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:56,079
and i worked at the time i was working

837
00:35:01,670 --> 00:34:58,560
with dr heineck so i helped in the

838
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:01,680
analysis of all the testimony and

839
00:35:06,310 --> 00:35:04,880
the analysis of the case

840
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:06,320
and then

841
00:35:10,870 --> 00:35:09,359
in france at valencia there were five

842
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:10,880
different agencies of the french

843
00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:13,440
government became involved for a number

844
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:15,680
of different reasons including the

845
00:35:19,270 --> 00:35:17,520
potential that this was

846
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:19,280
some sort of vehicle

847
00:35:22,630 --> 00:35:20,720
transferring

848
00:35:25,750 --> 00:35:22,640
illegal things to switzerland from

849
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:25,760
france so the customs got involved of

850
00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:27,280
course the air force of course the

851
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:29,119
gender marine

852
00:35:32,710 --> 00:35:31,440
the police investigators police

853
00:35:36,069 --> 00:35:32,720
intelligence

854
00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:36,079
and uh so we know you know they all

855
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:39,280
interviewed the witnesses again

856
00:35:44,710 --> 00:35:42,240
at valencia and i've been advancing i've

857
00:35:49,030 --> 00:35:44,720
met with the witness i've met with other

858
00:35:52,710 --> 00:35:50,950
because they didn't want anything to do

859
00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:52,720
with the media

860
00:35:59,510 --> 00:35:56,160
but they you know the media in france is

861
00:36:01,750 --> 00:35:59,520
somewhat of a you know the a lot of

862
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:01,760
conversations are confidential there you

863
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:03,920
know they they don't especially want the

864
00:36:07,270 --> 00:36:06,240
big to be on tv and so on that's not the

865
00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:07,280
idea

866
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:10,079
so the the communities are very closed

867
00:36:15,670 --> 00:36:13,520
and i had the the benefit of being

868
00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:15,680
introduced by someone who had a house

869
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:16,480
there

870
00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:18,240
the new the

871
00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:20,480
the the infrared people in the in the

872
00:36:25,030 --> 00:36:22,160
village in the town

873
00:36:27,109 --> 00:36:25,040
and so we had access to

874
00:36:28,550 --> 00:36:27,119
the things that were that the police

875
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:28,560
never heard

876
00:36:35,349 --> 00:36:33,760
including the traces that were there

877
00:36:36,950 --> 00:36:35,359
including other cases in the

878
00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:36,960
neighborhoods

879
00:36:42,630 --> 00:36:39,040
so the case was not unique

880
00:36:44,390 --> 00:36:42,640
but the um

881
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:44,400
the case was

882
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:46,960
strong enough that there was absolutely

883
00:36:52,150 --> 00:36:48,880
no question about what was there and the

884
00:36:53,750 --> 00:36:52,160
traces that were left in the field were

885
00:36:56,470 --> 00:36:53,760
incontrovertible

886
00:36:59,829 --> 00:36:56,480
so here we have three cases

887
00:37:00,870 --> 00:36:59,839
forming a pattern across time and across

888
00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:00,880
space

889
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:03,280
you know two of them in new mexico and

890
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:04,800
one in france

891
00:37:09,430 --> 00:37:06,640
thoroughly investigated

892
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:09,440
and with with confirming

893
00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:11,440
data

894
00:37:15,910 --> 00:37:13,520
it's fascinating yeah the the

895
00:37:17,990 --> 00:37:15,920
correlations are just stunning if you

896
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:18,000
think about it and only years apart too

897
00:37:21,670 --> 00:37:19,920
so you truly have to wonder

898
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:21,680
you know are we dealing with the same

899
00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:24,640
technology or intelligence behind said

900
00:37:29,589 --> 00:37:27,280
craft uh i don't know there's a million

901
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:29,599
questions to come after that

902
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:31,440
take it to the next level we have to

903
00:37:35,829 --> 00:37:33,599
wonder

904
00:37:37,990 --> 00:37:35,839
why is it that i mean we have this

905
00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:38,000
extraordinary weapon which is the atomic

906
00:37:42,069 --> 00:37:39,040
bomb

907
00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:42,079
right why we used it we didn't use it in

908
00:37:46,310 --> 00:37:43,599
korea

909
00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:46,320
we didn't use it in vietnam

910
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:49,680
russia has never used it in its own

911
00:37:54,390 --> 00:37:51,599
conflicts around the world

912
00:37:56,550 --> 00:37:54,400
france has never used it

913
00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:56,560
why

914
00:38:02,550 --> 00:37:59,680
it's the first time in history that

915
00:38:05,109 --> 00:38:02,560
a a weapon that is extraordinarily

916
00:38:06,310 --> 00:38:05,119
effective

917
00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:06,320
has

918
00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:10,000
not been used for you know uh

919
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:15,109
really good point yeah

920
00:38:20,310 --> 00:38:17,440
does that have something to do with

921
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:20,320
was trinity a signal to us from

922
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:22,480
something else i mean that's

923
00:38:27,829 --> 00:38:24,560
i cannot answer that question but we

924
00:38:30,630 --> 00:38:27,839
have to ask the question

925
00:38:33,030 --> 00:38:30,640
yeah absolutely um well

926
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:33,040
in terms of that shock another question

927
00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:34,800
for you concerning this case the the

928
00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:37,680
witness of sabrina um i found the

929
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:40,240
interviews in the book fascinating that

930
00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:43,040
uh paula conducted with her especially

931
00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:45,599
when it came to the

932
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:47,440
when when i read that

933
00:38:51,910 --> 00:38:49,920
you know these materials that were

934
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:51,920
supposedly taken from the site by one of

935
00:38:55,030 --> 00:38:54,000
the witnesses uh

936
00:38:57,430 --> 00:38:55,040
acted

937
00:38:59,109 --> 00:38:57,440
just like what we heard the testimony in

938
00:39:02,390 --> 00:38:59,119
roswell you know these

939
00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:02,400
memory metals as it were uh that really

940
00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:04,400
blew me away i mean again this was years

941
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:06,560
prior to roswell so you have to wonder

942
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:08,640
again are we dealing with some of the

943
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:09,520
same

944
00:39:14,870 --> 00:39:12,160
technology or whoever manufactured these

945
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:14,880
craft uh what are your thoughts on this

946
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:17,520
memory medal being found at both sides

947
00:39:23,109 --> 00:39:21,119
well uh sabrina is is a treasure you

948
00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:23,119
know um

949
00:39:30,150 --> 00:39:27,040
paola uh you know had

950
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:30,160
heard that there was you know from

951
00:39:34,230 --> 00:39:32,800
from uh mr padilla

952
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:34,240
that other

953
00:39:38,790 --> 00:39:36,800
family members had been around

954
00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:38,800
afterwards she's not a witness to the

955
00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:40,240
initial

956
00:39:44,310 --> 00:39:42,800
crash you know the crash landing

957
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:44,320
but she

958
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:45,760
was there

959
00:39:49,349 --> 00:39:48,000
during the following years

960
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:49,359
when

961
00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:52,480
a lot of things were still recoverable

962
00:39:54,790 --> 00:39:53,359
from

963
00:39:56,470 --> 00:39:54,800
the site

964
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:56,480
and the local people

965
00:39:59,190 --> 00:39:58,000
came up with

966
00:40:02,710 --> 00:39:59,200
things that

967
00:40:04,550 --> 00:40:02,720
you know they were very curious about um

968
00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:04,560
including

969
00:40:08,790 --> 00:40:06,880
a number of things not not just the

970
00:40:11,829 --> 00:40:08,800
memory medal

971
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:11,839
but also strange fibers

972
00:40:14,950 --> 00:40:13,839
that grow

973
00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:14,960
now

974
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:16,800
if if you remember

975
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:17,760
um

976
00:40:21,430 --> 00:40:19,920
you know there are those fibers are

977
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:21,440
described in

978
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:25,040
you know in in other places carol corso

979
00:40:30,390 --> 00:40:27,760
who was interviewed also by

980
00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:30,400
paola harris published a book of her

981
00:40:35,109 --> 00:40:32,960
interviews with carmel carlson

982
00:40:38,069 --> 00:40:35,119
especially her interviews in italy where

983
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:38,079
he was free to talk i mean he was

984
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:40,560
somewhat cautious in the us because he

985
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:42,400
had been told that there were some

986
00:40:48,150 --> 00:40:44,400
things he shouldn't talk about

987
00:40:49,349 --> 00:40:48,160
and you know he sort of followed that

988
00:40:50,630 --> 00:40:49,359
you know

989
00:40:54,790 --> 00:40:50,640
that

990
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:54,800
in europe he felt free to

991
00:40:58,069 --> 00:40:56,720
to talk about more of the details of

992
00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:58,079
what he had seen

993
00:41:01,510 --> 00:41:00,240
so paula's book is very important in

994
00:41:02,390 --> 00:41:01,520
that regard

995
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:02,400
and

996
00:41:11,349 --> 00:41:08,319
you know under the auspices of the

997
00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:11,359
bigarou project in las vegas we had two

998
00:41:15,829 --> 00:41:14,880
days we brought him to las vegas to talk

999
00:41:21,109 --> 00:41:15,839
to the

1000
00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:21,119
two days

1001
00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:24,240
and i had private conversations with him

1002
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:26,160
because he wanted to talk about things

1003
00:41:30,309 --> 00:41:28,079
that related to france and things

1004
00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:30,319
related to physics

1005
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:33,040
that were not part of the you know the

1006
00:41:36,390 --> 00:41:34,880
major conversations

1007
00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:36,400
and

1008
00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:37,280
the

1009
00:41:43,430 --> 00:41:39,599
i asked him you know he was talking

1010
00:41:46,390 --> 00:41:43,440
about those fibers as fiber optics and i

1011
00:41:47,589 --> 00:41:46,400
i had a little argument with him uh i

1012
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:47,599
said you know

1013
00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:49,440
fiber optics doesn't work like that i

1014
00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:52,560
mean fiber optics doesn't glow you know

1015
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:55,839
uh along the length of the fiber you put

1016
00:42:00,790 --> 00:41:58,480
a light at one end very very carefully

1017
00:42:02,550 --> 00:42:00,800
at a particular you know

1018
00:42:05,109 --> 00:42:02,560
particular frequency

1019
00:42:05,990 --> 00:42:05,119
it comes out you know 100 kilometers

1020
00:42:08,390 --> 00:42:06,000
later

1021
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:08,400
in your computer okay but it doesn't

1022
00:42:12,950 --> 00:42:10,800
glow in between that

1023
00:42:14,950 --> 00:42:12,960
and those those fibers that he was

1024
00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:14,960
describing were growing

1025
00:42:19,750 --> 00:42:17,680
in different colors all along their

1026
00:42:22,470 --> 00:42:19,760
length okay and those were

1027
00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:22,480
fibers that he had been given

1028
00:42:26,069 --> 00:42:24,560
by the pentagon you know not by a

1029
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:26,079
witness somewhere in

1030
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:29,200
the field but by the pentagon after a

1031
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:32,560
number of recoveries of ufos by now we

1032
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:34,560
know that i mean it's not come on it's

1033
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:36,480
not a secret anymore i mean everybody

1034
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:38,319
knows right so

1035
00:42:44,309 --> 00:42:41,359
uh he was given a box of of different

1036
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:44,319
things that he gave to different lands

1037
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:47,119
and we have a pretty good idea of who

1038
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:50,000
who would have been given that material

1039
00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:52,640
the the labs were not told that it came

1040
00:42:56,950 --> 00:42:55,040
from a ufo

1041
00:42:59,510 --> 00:42:56,960
i think they were smart enough to guess

1042
00:43:01,349 --> 00:42:59,520
that when once they put it under a

1043
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:01,359
microscope they could

1044
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:04,079
they could tell that that technology was

1045
00:43:10,230 --> 00:43:06,880
way ahead of what what they had even

1046
00:43:11,349 --> 00:43:10,240
with ibm you know even at mattel even at

1047
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:11,359
lockheed

1048
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:12,400
but

1049
00:43:14,470 --> 00:43:13,200
the

1050
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:14,480
um

1051
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:15,359
the

1052
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,160
is

1053
00:43:25,109 --> 00:43:22,560
and as you know we found one more

1054
00:43:27,829 --> 00:43:25,119
witness which is the new witness that's

1055
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:27,839
in the in the red book in the the new

1056
00:43:32,230 --> 00:43:31,440
edition in the red edition of of trinity

1057
00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:32,240
uh

1058
00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:34,960
who came in much later and did not know

1059
00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:38,400
about the ufo itself

1060
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:41,200
and because by then nobody you know that

1061
00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:43,200
had passed and the people who knew about

1062
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:44,800
it when he talked

1063
00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:47,680
but he knew about the fibers and we we

1064
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:49,440
had that conversation that again

1065
00:43:54,630 --> 00:43:51,680
confirms that the

1066
00:43:57,430 --> 00:43:54,640
the the the succeeding events

1067
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:57,440
so we have a pretty good idea

1068
00:44:04,390 --> 00:44:01,040
that um now

1069
00:44:07,670 --> 00:44:04,400
the metal that keeps its shape there are

1070
00:44:10,069 --> 00:44:07,680
two different versions of it one version

1071
00:44:11,349 --> 00:44:10,079
was developed in fact and came into

1072
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:11,359
existence

1073
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:14,560
in american industry later so i've

1074
00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:16,160
always been

1075
00:44:21,270 --> 00:44:18,720
you know a little bit skeptical

1076
00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:21,280
about one as well because at the time of

1077
00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:22,720
roswell

1078
00:44:30,069 --> 00:44:28,710
experiments in various laboratories

1079
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:30,079
about

1080
00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:32,079
memory metal

1081
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:34,400
you know metal that you can bend or you

1082
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:37,119
can you know you can shuffle and it will

1083
00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:41,040
get back to its you know flat uh state

1084
00:44:43,750 --> 00:44:42,319
um

1085
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:43,760
that

1086
00:44:50,230 --> 00:44:46,400
at least the principle was was known by

1087
00:44:54,390 --> 00:44:53,109
don't know whether it had been

1088
00:44:57,990 --> 00:44:54,400
actually

1089
00:44:59,349 --> 00:44:58,000
manufactured developed in in the lab in

1090
00:45:02,950 --> 00:44:59,359
in quality

1091
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:02,960
but certainly the principle was had been

1092
00:45:08,150 --> 00:45:05,280
formulated

1093
00:45:10,150 --> 00:45:08,160
1945 it's hard to

1094
00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:10,160
that that's again one of the benefits of

1095
00:45:15,829 --> 00:45:12,720
this case of the trinity case is that it

1096
00:45:18,550 --> 00:45:15,839
puts us two years before all of that you

1097
00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:18,560
know when we call flying saucers before

1098
00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:22,240
can i follow before the cia before all

1099
00:45:26,309 --> 00:45:24,800
of that you know before the air force

1100
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:26,319
so

1101
00:45:30,630 --> 00:45:28,800
what was that shape

1102
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:30,640
keeping material

1103
00:45:33,910 --> 00:45:33,119
doing in the middle of a ranch

1104
00:45:36,390 --> 00:45:33,920
uh

1105
00:45:38,710 --> 00:45:36,400
you know in new mexico mars from the

1106
00:45:41,829 --> 00:45:38,720
nearest town

1107
00:45:42,870 --> 00:45:41,839
uh how did it get there and why was it

1108
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:42,880
there

1109
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:44,960
the the fibers again are very

1110
00:45:48,390 --> 00:45:47,280
interesting and then sabrina described

1111
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:48,400
to us

1112
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:50,800
a number of other things

1113
00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:53,520
like uh you know metallic

1114
00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:58,160
plates uh you know long long plates

1115
00:46:02,550 --> 00:45:59,760
of you know

1116
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:02,560
12 or 18 inches long

1117
00:46:06,309 --> 00:46:03,599
that

1118
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:06,319
have very very interesting properties

1119
00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:08,960
and her grandfather was playing with

1120
00:46:11,510 --> 00:46:10,480
those

1121
00:46:13,589 --> 00:46:11,520
um

1122
00:46:16,710 --> 00:46:13,599
she also said some really interesting

1123
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:16,720
things about the fibers that

1124
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:19,119
she said if anybody finds those fibers

1125
00:46:22,470 --> 00:46:20,960
don't play with them

1126
00:46:24,309 --> 00:46:22,480
you know be careful when you play with

1127
00:46:28,150 --> 00:46:24,319
them because they will

1128
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:28,160
tickle and hurt your fingers

1129
00:46:33,910 --> 00:46:31,200
well why would they tickle and hurt your

1130
00:46:35,030 --> 00:46:33,920
fingers you know

1131
00:46:36,950 --> 00:46:35,040
they

1132
00:46:39,030 --> 00:46:36,960
she said that she played with it as a

1133
00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:39,040
little girl because it was she was

1134
00:46:44,470 --> 00:46:41,599
fascinated with all the colors i mean

1135
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:44,480
she was in a room with no electricity

1136
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:46,480
you know and

1137
00:46:50,470 --> 00:46:49,040
they were the kids had been decorating

1138
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:50,480
christmas trees

1139
00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:53,200
with the fibers they found after the

1140
00:46:59,589 --> 00:46:56,480
impact of the the object on the tower

1141
00:47:01,589 --> 00:46:59,599
you know one panel blew up and it blew

1142
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:01,599
up in the form of all those fibers and

1143
00:47:05,510 --> 00:47:04,560
they found heaps of fibers on the ground

1144
00:47:07,910 --> 00:47:05,520
so

1145
00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:07,920
they they kept it and it growed in the

1146
00:47:12,069 --> 00:47:10,079
dark so they put it on christmas trees

1147
00:47:14,790 --> 00:47:12,079
you know i mean that's what you do when

1148
00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:14,800
you find you know a crushed ufo

1149
00:47:18,230 --> 00:47:16,880
you take the material you use it on your

1150
00:47:19,349 --> 00:47:18,240
christmas tree

1151
00:47:22,550 --> 00:47:19,359
wow

1152
00:47:25,750 --> 00:47:22,560
that story is is just completely it

1153
00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:25,760
catches you by surprise at so many

1154
00:47:30,470 --> 00:47:28,079
different levels you know

1155
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:30,480
including some levels

1156
00:47:35,670 --> 00:47:33,359
about the history of the end of the war

1157
00:47:37,109 --> 00:47:35,680
that kept me crying you know i mean for

1158
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:37,119
a while i couldn't

1159
00:47:40,950 --> 00:47:39,440
talk about that aspect of it of what

1160
00:47:44,710 --> 00:47:40,960
happened to the bomb

1161
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:44,720
you know when it was in japan you know

1162
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:46,800
i i couldn't talk about it without

1163
00:47:50,230 --> 00:47:48,000
crying

1164
00:47:52,630 --> 00:47:50,240
and i know other people who you know

1165
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:52,640
went for the same same experience

1166
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:54,640
because what i what i learned about

1167
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:57,920
their history of the end of world war ii

1168
00:48:02,550 --> 00:48:00,240
was devastating

1169
00:48:04,470 --> 00:48:02,560
and it's another history we're teaching

1170
00:48:05,670 --> 00:48:04,480
in school

1171
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:05,680
right

1172
00:48:10,870 --> 00:48:08,160
yeah and you know again we have to keep

1173
00:48:11,829 --> 00:48:10,880
in mind the time period in which this

1174
00:48:14,349 --> 00:48:11,839
case

1175
00:48:16,950 --> 00:48:14,359
occurred and the the

1176
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:16,960
unbelievable loss of life that would

1177
00:48:22,230 --> 00:48:19,200
ultimately come from you know these

1178
00:48:24,390 --> 00:48:22,240
tests at trinity and uh like you always

1179
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:24,400
say jacques like the ufo case is one

1180
00:48:28,950 --> 00:48:25,920
thing but when you put it into the

1181
00:48:30,870 --> 00:48:28,960
historical context of the time uh it

1182
00:48:33,190 --> 00:48:30,880
becomes such a bigger story especially

1183
00:48:35,349 --> 00:48:33,200
with what's going on uh not just in

1184
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:35,359
america but all over the world you know

1185
00:48:39,510 --> 00:48:37,760
when this was happening too it's

1186
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:39,520
again i think people sometimes lose

1187
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,119
sight of the historical

1188
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:43,680
perspective when it comes to these cases

1189
00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:45,440
we're making right now you were asking

1190
00:48:49,030 --> 00:48:47,520
me at the beginning you know what about

1191
00:48:51,430 --> 00:48:49,040
this change

1192
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:51,440
you know that's this

1193
00:48:54,549 --> 00:48:53,760
in in in history

1194
00:48:57,430 --> 00:48:54,559
uh

1195
00:48:59,829 --> 00:48:57,440
that now the the subject is open and

1196
00:49:02,390 --> 00:48:59,839
it's recognized and it's not you know

1197
00:49:04,470 --> 00:49:02,400
it's not a joke anymore it's not

1198
00:49:07,270 --> 00:49:04,480
but um

1199
00:49:08,870 --> 00:49:07,280
in the u.s we're looking at it strictly

1200
00:49:12,309 --> 00:49:08,880
as an american

1201
00:49:14,549 --> 00:49:12,319
phenomenon you know the nimitz so on

1202
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:14,559
well you know it isn't an american

1203
00:49:22,950 --> 00:49:19,200
phenomenon you know the the uh

1204
00:49:25,270 --> 00:49:22,960
the land mass that occupied by americans

1205
00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:25,280
is 1.7

1206
00:49:30,110 --> 00:49:27,920
of the planet

1207
00:49:31,309 --> 00:49:30,120
well you know what about the other

1208
00:49:34,710 --> 00:49:31,319
[Music]

1209
00:49:36,150 --> 00:49:34,720
98.3 percent of the planet you know what

1210
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:36,160
happens there

1211
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:38,640
you know there's i'm going next week i'm

1212
00:49:43,589 --> 00:49:40,480
going to france

1213
00:49:45,349 --> 00:49:43,599
where there is a a meeting of the french

1214
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:45,359
space agency

1215
00:49:51,109 --> 00:49:47,839
group that is has been studying ufos

1216
00:49:52,950 --> 00:49:51,119
officially for the last 30 years

1217
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:52,960
actually four years

1218
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:55,680
and has its own fives and so on there

1219
00:49:59,910 --> 00:49:57,040
will be

1220
00:50:01,270 --> 00:49:59,920
six countries represented there you know

1221
00:50:06,150 --> 00:50:01,280
uh

1222
00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:06,160
you know me if you count me as an

1223
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:08,160
american which i am

1224
00:50:12,549 --> 00:50:09,359
and

1225
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:12,559
a man who has studied uh

1226
00:50:17,589 --> 00:50:15,680
with dr haynes uh you know the pilot

1227
00:50:19,990 --> 00:50:17,599
reports from all over the world again

1228
00:50:22,390 --> 00:50:20,000
not just america but all over the world

1229
00:50:26,069 --> 00:50:22,400
in fact that database was started in

1230
00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:26,079
france and continued uh with dr haynes

1231
00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:27,599
uh at nasa

1232
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:28,400
so

1233
00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:30,559
uh but

1234
00:50:34,390 --> 00:50:32,000
you know what about all those other

1235
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:34,400
countries i mean italy will be there

1236
00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:36,960
spain will be there norway will be there

1237
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:39,040
the uk will be there germany will be

1238
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:42,720
there making presentations on this topic

1239
00:50:47,750 --> 00:50:44,880
and in the united states

1240
00:50:50,230 --> 00:50:47,760
you know where is it you open your tv

1241
00:50:52,309 --> 00:50:50,240
and they keep running the same pictures

1242
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:52,319
you know and the same pictures of the

1243
00:50:55,829 --> 00:50:54,480
their hearings where they were

1244
00:50:58,390 --> 00:50:55,839
two

1245
00:51:00,710 --> 00:50:58,400
um you know responsible

1246
00:51:02,309 --> 00:51:00,720
agency

1247
00:51:04,470 --> 00:51:02,319
you know

1248
00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:04,480
leaders

1249
00:51:09,030 --> 00:51:07,680
all they knew were about 200 american

1250
00:51:14,390 --> 00:51:09,040
cases

1251
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:14,400
was no question no mention of history

1252
00:51:18,150 --> 00:51:16,079
no mention of

1253
00:51:20,710 --> 00:51:18,160
what those other countries have in their

1254
00:51:23,510 --> 00:51:20,720
files that they keep in their files

1255
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:23,520
because they don't want to be ridiculed

1256
00:51:31,990 --> 00:51:29,349
so

1257
00:51:34,390 --> 00:51:32,000
you know they say if if this was real

1258
00:51:36,390 --> 00:51:34,400
then the americans would be all over

1259
00:51:38,950 --> 00:51:36,400
this you know it would be open

1260
00:51:41,589 --> 00:51:38,960
we could do research we could share the

1261
00:51:43,829 --> 00:51:41,599
our information with the americans

1262
00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:43,839
but the americans are not coming here to

1263
00:51:49,190 --> 00:51:46,720
ask what information we have

1264
00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:49,200
and the subject has been dead in america

1265
00:51:53,349 --> 00:51:50,800
you know forever

1266
00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:53,359
i mean the air falls did a commendable

1267
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:56,160
job of releasing their flags i think the

1268
00:52:00,870 --> 00:51:58,880
the air falls contrary to what people

1269
00:52:02,230 --> 00:52:00,880
you know think and say

1270
00:52:04,870 --> 00:52:02,240
uh

1271
00:52:06,790 --> 00:52:04,880
as you know i met the officers with dr

1272
00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:06,800
heineck you know the officers in charge

1273
00:52:10,470 --> 00:52:08,079
of blue book

1274
00:52:11,829 --> 00:52:10,480
they were trying to do a good job and

1275
00:52:17,510 --> 00:52:11,839
the data

1276
00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:17,520
and is valuable is scientifically viable

1277
00:52:21,990 --> 00:52:20,000
very valuable and

1278
00:52:24,230 --> 00:52:22,000
you know how many scientists have looked

1279
00:52:27,109 --> 00:52:24,240
at it

1280
00:52:29,109 --> 00:52:27,119
you know you can count them on the the

1281
00:52:31,109 --> 00:52:29,119
fingers of this hand

1282
00:52:35,910 --> 00:52:31,119
american says

1283
00:52:41,270 --> 00:52:38,069
hey guys ryan here the summer in the

1284
00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:41,280
skies podcast is a labor of love every

1285
00:52:45,910 --> 00:52:43,440
week and with that comes many different

1286
00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:45,920
costs to keep the show running that's

1287
00:52:50,710 --> 00:52:48,640
where our patreon campaign comes in you

1288
00:52:53,109 --> 00:52:50,720
give what you think the show is worth

1289
00:52:55,030 --> 00:52:53,119
there's different rewards available all

1290
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:55,040
the time including shout outs on the

1291
00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:57,599
show early editions of main episodes

1292
00:53:02,870 --> 00:53:00,400
bonus episodes and content and very soon

1293
00:53:06,230 --> 00:53:02,880
monthly patron hangouts where we sit

1294
00:53:07,990 --> 00:53:06,240
back and chat all things ufos so i hope

1295
00:53:10,470 --> 00:53:08,000
you'll consider becoming a patreon

1296
00:53:14,230 --> 00:53:10,480
subscriber today to learn more and to

1297
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:14,240
join visit patreon.com

1298
00:53:22,390 --> 00:53:16,800
skies thank you for your support and

1299
00:53:27,190 --> 00:53:25,030
do you like stories of the strange the

1300
00:53:30,069 --> 00:53:27,200
weird and the unexplained then we want

1301
00:53:32,790 --> 00:53:30,079
you to check out jim harold's campfire

1302
00:53:35,510 --> 00:53:32,800
the concept is pretty simple jim talks

1303
00:53:37,670 --> 00:53:35,520
to regular people about strange stuff

1304
00:53:41,349 --> 00:53:37,680
that happens to them and yes that

1305
00:53:43,910 --> 00:53:41,359
includes ufos along with cryptids ghosts

1306
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:43,920
and head scratchers he doesn't

1307
00:53:49,109 --> 00:53:47,040
exaggerate or play a lot of spooky music

1308
00:53:51,990 --> 00:53:49,119
kinda like i'm doing right now the

1309
00:53:54,710 --> 00:53:52,000
stories speak for themselves one's like

1310
00:53:57,430 --> 00:53:54,720
a ghost story involving serial killer

1311
00:54:00,790 --> 00:53:57,440
ted bundy or the young man who

1312
00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:00,800
encountered an eight-legged demon then

1313
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:03,200
there's the story of an alien abduction

1314
00:54:08,870 --> 00:54:06,000
by what could be considered a reptilian

1315
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:08,880
now not all the stories are horrifying

1316
00:54:14,150 --> 00:54:11,280
some are actually pretty heartwarming

1317
00:54:16,470 --> 00:54:14,160
like a visit from a past loved one or a

1318
00:54:19,349 --> 00:54:16,480
peaceful near-death experience

1319
00:54:22,390 --> 00:54:19,359
regardless these are true and

1320
00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:22,400
fascinating stories told by ordinary

1321
00:54:26,069 --> 00:54:24,400
people who've had extraordinary

1322
00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:26,079
experiences

1323
00:54:32,230 --> 00:54:28,640
tune in to jim harold's campfire on

1324
00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:32,240
apple podcasts spotify or wherever you

1325
00:54:35,829 --> 00:54:34,640
listen to somewhere in the skies and

1326
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:35,839
remember

1327
00:54:45,109 --> 00:54:41,910
yeah it does speak to the frustration i

1328
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:45,119
think a lot of people have with how

1329
00:54:48,950 --> 00:54:47,440
i guess cagey the united states is when

1330
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:48,960
it comes to this you know there seems to

1331
00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:50,400
be a

1332
00:54:53,589 --> 00:54:51,280
weird

1333
00:54:55,829 --> 00:54:53,599
intelligence game going on when it comes

1334
00:54:58,309 --> 00:54:55,839
to how transparent they're willing to

1335
00:55:00,069 --> 00:54:58,319
with the public and with other countries

1336
00:55:01,190 --> 00:55:00,079
because again if these things are

1337
00:55:03,349 --> 00:55:01,200
crashing

1338
00:55:05,430 --> 00:55:03,359
in the united states and all over the

1339
00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:05,440
world you know you do truly have to

1340
00:55:10,630 --> 00:55:07,760
wonder how much information does that

1341
00:55:13,030 --> 00:55:10,640
nation want to share with another nation

1342
00:55:14,470 --> 00:55:13,040
and what they might possess it's it's a

1343
00:55:15,990 --> 00:55:14,480
you know a question we'll be asking

1344
00:55:18,150 --> 00:55:16,000
forever

1345
00:55:20,630 --> 00:55:18,160
you know you know of course we as

1346
00:55:23,349 --> 00:55:20,640
scientists we like crash cases because

1347
00:55:26,069 --> 00:55:23,359
we get material from them but we also

1348
00:55:28,309 --> 00:55:26,079
get material from cases that are just

1349
00:55:30,549 --> 00:55:28,319
landings and not crashes i mean in

1350
00:55:33,430 --> 00:55:30,559
socorro it didn't crash

1351
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:33,440
you know so-called is extraordinary and

1352
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:34,480
in in

1353
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:36,720
you know in this book i i've i've

1354
00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:37,839
brought back

1355
00:55:42,630 --> 00:55:40,000
some details about socorro that have

1356
00:55:43,990 --> 00:55:42,640
never been published because some of the

1357
00:55:47,109 --> 00:55:44,000
testimony

1358
00:55:50,390 --> 00:55:47,119
remained private i mean it wasn't secret

1359
00:55:53,030 --> 00:55:50,400
it wasn't covered by any any secrecy it

1360
00:55:55,349 --> 00:55:53,040
was just private and it was recorded and

1361
00:55:56,390 --> 00:55:55,359
it went into a file i happened to have

1362
00:55:58,390 --> 00:55:56,400
the fight

1363
00:56:01,349 --> 00:55:58,400
because i was i worked again i worked

1364
00:56:03,750 --> 00:56:01,359
with dr heineck and i was i was

1365
00:56:06,069 --> 00:56:03,760
fascinated with the case we

1366
00:56:07,990 --> 00:56:06,079
brought together a team from people at

1367
00:56:10,789 --> 00:56:08,000
the university of chicago people at

1368
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:10,799
northwestern university to look at all

1369
00:56:14,230 --> 00:56:13,200
the data from socorro that dr heineck

1370
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:14,240
brought back

1371
00:56:18,789 --> 00:56:17,440
and uh you know it's it's a case that

1372
00:56:20,950 --> 00:56:18,799
just keeps

1373
00:56:23,190 --> 00:56:20,960
we keep learning new things about it as

1374
00:56:24,069 --> 00:56:23,200
we go along and that's that's in the

1375
00:56:25,270 --> 00:56:24,079
book

1376
00:56:27,990 --> 00:56:25,280
um so

1377
00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:28,000
those cases valencia of course is not a

1378
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:31,200
crash it's a controlled landing

1379
00:56:35,349 --> 00:56:34,000
and so coral is a controlled landing

1380
00:56:37,670 --> 00:56:35,359
by the way

1381
00:56:39,589 --> 00:56:37,680
when you go to the site which i i've

1382
00:56:41,910 --> 00:56:39,599
i've gone several times and i've gone

1383
00:56:44,789 --> 00:56:41,920
there with the with paul heineck you

1384
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:44,799
know the dr dr paul heineck was

1385
00:56:50,710 --> 00:56:47,760
the son of of professor heineck

1386
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:50,720
and uh with i had the pleasure of taking

1387
00:56:54,870 --> 00:56:53,760
him to the site of the socorro uh

1388
00:56:57,510 --> 00:56:54,880
landing

1389
00:57:00,630 --> 00:56:57,520
um the the site is

1390
00:57:03,430 --> 00:57:00,640
you know is completely torn up by

1391
00:57:06,230 --> 00:57:03,440
by little creeks by i mean it's a part

1392
00:57:09,190 --> 00:57:06,240
of the desert that you know it's on the

1393
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:09,200
side of the hill with big stones and

1394
00:57:13,910 --> 00:57:11,599
everything else it's the last place

1395
00:57:15,430 --> 00:57:13,920
where you would land a prototype of

1396
00:57:19,030 --> 00:57:15,440
something as well

1397
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:19,040
it turns out that there was an analysis

1398
00:57:22,390 --> 00:57:21,359
from the traces or traces were very well

1399
00:57:24,549 --> 00:57:22,400
preserved

1400
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:24,559
and from the analysis of the traces and

1401
00:57:30,710 --> 00:57:27,760
their geometry you can reconstruct what

1402
00:57:33,430 --> 00:57:30,720
that landing gear was like

1403
00:57:34,870 --> 00:57:33,440
the blending gear has geometric

1404
00:57:37,109 --> 00:57:34,880
properties

1405
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:37,119
that we could have used on the moon you

1406
00:57:43,430 --> 00:57:40,559
know if you have to land on on

1407
00:57:45,109 --> 00:57:43,440
you know a place that's uneven

1408
00:57:46,870 --> 00:57:45,119
now you remember

1409
00:57:48,150 --> 00:57:46,880
when they landed the first time on the

1410
00:57:51,990 --> 00:57:48,160
moon they were

1411
00:57:55,510 --> 00:57:52,000
they almost ran out of of power you know

1412
00:57:58,309 --> 00:57:55,520
just a few minutes uh because they were

1413
00:57:59,190 --> 00:57:58,319
looking for a flat place to land

1414
00:58:01,990 --> 00:57:59,200
well

1415
00:58:05,589 --> 00:58:02,000
the thing that landed at socorro which

1416
00:58:07,190 --> 00:58:05,599
was estimated that weighing several tons

1417
00:58:10,870 --> 00:58:07,200
and we still don't understand what the

1418
00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:14,710
landed on completely uneven terrain and

1419
00:58:18,710 --> 00:58:17,200
the pirates didn't care

1420
00:58:21,589 --> 00:58:18,720
they knew they could

1421
00:58:24,549 --> 00:58:21,599
level on they trusted their landing here

1422
00:58:27,109 --> 00:58:24,559
completely and it was you know a complex

1423
00:58:29,510 --> 00:58:27,119
landing gear was a complex machine by

1424
00:58:31,349 --> 00:58:29,520
itself and then the skeptics say oh you

1425
00:58:33,829 --> 00:58:31,359
know it must have been a balloon

1426
00:58:34,710 --> 00:58:33,839
well you know go there and tell me if

1427
00:58:38,390 --> 00:58:34,720
you can

1428
00:58:42,950 --> 00:58:40,470
uh you know a balloon would look for a

1429
00:58:44,230 --> 00:58:42,960
flat you know flat area

1430
00:58:46,230 --> 00:58:44,240
it would

1431
00:58:47,349 --> 00:58:46,240
land in the middle of a bunch of

1432
00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:47,359
boulders

1433
00:58:51,270 --> 00:58:48,880
so

1434
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:51,280
they um

1435
00:58:55,349 --> 00:58:54,240
you know i've learned so much so much in

1436
00:59:06,549 --> 00:58:55,359
in

1437
00:59:08,230 --> 00:59:06,559
um oh yes

1438
00:59:13,990 --> 00:59:08,240
because

1439
00:59:15,190 --> 00:59:14,000
and maybe you know there are not many

1440
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:15,200
cases

1441
00:59:20,230 --> 00:59:17,760
in the ufo archives

1442
00:59:22,950 --> 00:59:20,240
where the witness has been followed

1443
00:59:25,510 --> 00:59:22,960
throughout his life

1444
00:59:27,990 --> 00:59:25,520
just that so you know something happens

1445
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:28,000
you go there you meet a witness

1446
00:59:33,190 --> 00:59:30,240
uh you document you know what he does

1447
00:59:34,950 --> 00:59:33,200
and his family and so on and then you

1448
00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:34,960
interview him about what he saw and then

1449
00:59:40,309 --> 00:59:37,520
you go home and you know you publish an

1450
00:59:41,670 --> 00:59:40,319
article about it if it's interesting

1451
00:59:44,150 --> 00:59:41,680
but

1452
00:59:46,870 --> 00:59:44,160
very rarely do people say

1453
00:59:49,510 --> 00:59:46,880
have you seen something like that before

1454
00:59:52,069 --> 00:59:49,520
or what were you doing you know the week

1455
00:59:54,150 --> 00:59:52,079
previous to your sighting

1456
00:59:56,230 --> 00:59:54,160
uh what happened to you after your

1457
00:59:58,710 --> 00:59:56,240
experience did you have strange dreams

1458
01:00:00,950 --> 00:59:58,720
did you did it change your life in some

1459
01:00:03,109 --> 01:00:00,960
way so

1460
01:00:05,349 --> 01:00:03,119
you know people don't ask those kinds of

1461
01:00:06,950 --> 01:00:05,359
questions or very rarely

1462
01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:06,960
well that's not the way to do an

1463
01:00:10,230 --> 01:00:09,359
investigation you need to know something

1464
01:00:13,030 --> 01:00:10,240
about

1465
01:00:14,470 --> 01:00:13,040
the you know the impact on

1466
01:00:17,589 --> 01:00:14,480
you know in

1467
01:00:20,630 --> 01:00:17,599
so here is juan perez

1468
01:00:22,789 --> 01:00:20,640
uh the the picture

1469
01:00:25,670 --> 01:00:22,799
is i always cringe when i see that

1470
01:00:27,190 --> 01:00:25,680
picture of me in my white shirt you know

1471
01:00:29,349 --> 01:00:27,200
in argentina

1472
01:00:32,870 --> 01:00:29,359
back back in

1473
01:00:36,309 --> 01:00:32,880
in the 60s you know with juan juan was

1474
01:00:38,390 --> 01:00:36,319
14 at the time was 15 at the time

1475
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:38,400
that was just two years after his

1476
01:00:40,630 --> 01:00:39,680
deciding

1477
01:00:44,309 --> 01:00:40,640
well

1478
01:00:46,950 --> 01:00:44,319
uh now is uh past 50

1479
01:00:49,030 --> 01:00:46,960
and we were reconnected

1480
01:00:51,270 --> 01:00:49,040
by the uh

1481
01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:51,280
you know the people who made the movie

1482
01:00:55,589 --> 01:00:53,280
they wanted to come and interview me in

1483
01:00:58,150 --> 01:00:55,599
san francisco because they knew i had

1484
01:01:00,150 --> 01:00:58,160
been there i've published the

1485
01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:00,160
the case in my books

1486
01:01:04,789 --> 01:01:03,359
and i i told them look you know

1487
01:01:07,030 --> 01:01:04,799
why don't

1488
01:01:10,789 --> 01:01:07,040
instead of the cost of coming to san

1489
01:01:13,109 --> 01:01:10,799
francisco with her with a team why don't

1490
01:01:14,789 --> 01:01:13,119
i fly to argentina

1491
01:01:15,990 --> 01:01:14,799
and you

1492
01:01:19,270 --> 01:01:16,000
let me

1493
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:19,280
you know let's reinterview him at the

1494
01:01:21,510 --> 01:01:20,160
site

1495
01:01:23,910 --> 01:01:21,520
because

1496
01:01:26,710 --> 01:01:23,920
you know he remembered me you remember

1497
01:01:29,109 --> 01:01:26,720
the interview we had had uh he he

1498
01:01:31,349 --> 01:01:29,119
remembered the

1499
01:01:33,510 --> 01:01:31,359
you know the the the big lunch we had

1500
01:01:36,390 --> 01:01:33,520
had with his neighbors with the

1501
01:01:38,549 --> 01:01:36,400
investigators with his family his family

1502
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:38,559
was wonderful

1503
01:01:43,109 --> 01:01:39,760
his mother

1504
01:01:44,950 --> 01:01:43,119
you know was indian

1505
01:01:47,430 --> 01:01:44,960
and

1506
01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:47,440
she had stories to tell that she didn't

1507
01:01:50,870 --> 01:01:48,960
tell at the time

1508
01:01:53,910 --> 01:01:50,880
at the time she stayed in the kitchen

1509
01:01:57,750 --> 01:01:53,920
you know preparing the meal for us

1510
01:01:59,430 --> 01:01:57,760
uh we spoke to her you know my wife was

1511
01:02:03,510 --> 01:01:59,440
with me my wife

1512
01:02:05,829 --> 01:02:03,520
uh whom i lost over 10 years ago but

1513
01:02:07,190 --> 01:02:05,839
my wife was a psychologist was a child

1514
01:02:09,829 --> 01:02:07,200
psychologist

1515
01:02:10,950 --> 01:02:09,839
so it was wonderful to have her

1516
01:02:12,870 --> 01:02:10,960
with me

1517
01:02:14,390 --> 01:02:12,880
you know in interviews that involved

1518
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:14,400
children

1519
01:02:22,710 --> 01:02:20,390
it was extraordinary to have the

1520
01:02:24,549 --> 01:02:22,720
opportunity to reconnect

1521
01:02:27,510 --> 01:02:24,559
with juan

1522
01:02:30,950 --> 01:02:27,520
and to find out what had happened how he

1523
01:02:34,630 --> 01:02:30,960
had been impacted by what he saw back

1524
01:02:36,710 --> 01:02:34,640
then because he had been

1525
01:02:38,950 --> 01:02:36,720
again in

1526
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:38,960
some sort of contact with that

1527
01:02:43,910 --> 01:02:40,720
intelligence

1528
01:02:45,109 --> 01:02:43,920
you know again again and again and

1529
01:02:48,630 --> 01:02:45,119
that had

1530
01:02:51,270 --> 01:02:48,640
profoundly affected his his life and i'm

1531
01:02:53,190 --> 01:02:51,280
very proud of what we did you know with

1532
01:02:54,710 --> 01:02:53,200
the team from the movie

1533
01:02:57,990 --> 01:02:54,720
in uh

1534
01:02:59,990 --> 01:02:58,000
reassuring him about what he had seen

1535
01:03:01,349 --> 01:03:00,000
about the fact that many other people

1536
01:03:03,030 --> 01:03:01,359
had had

1537
01:03:05,349 --> 01:03:03,040
that you know

1538
01:03:06,549 --> 01:03:05,359
very very powerful life-changing

1539
01:03:09,270 --> 01:03:06,559
experience

1540
01:03:11,190 --> 01:03:09,280
and i think we we helped him

1541
01:03:13,990 --> 01:03:11,200
you know reconnect with

1542
01:03:15,910 --> 01:03:14,000
his life frankly

1543
01:03:17,589 --> 01:03:15,920
you know you see that in the movie and

1544
01:03:20,230 --> 01:03:17,599
to me that's the most

1545
01:03:23,990 --> 01:03:20,240
uh you know uh

1546
01:03:25,990 --> 01:03:24,000
uh impactful and profound

1547
01:03:27,750 --> 01:03:26,000
part of the experience

1548
01:03:29,029 --> 01:03:27,760
was uh

1549
01:03:31,349 --> 01:03:29,039
i spent

1550
01:03:34,150 --> 01:03:31,359
six months after they agreed to bring me

1551
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:34,160
back to argentina i used to be fluent in

1552
01:03:38,390 --> 01:03:36,400
spanish when i was a kid

1553
01:03:39,430 --> 01:03:38,400
i learned spanish i love the spanish

1554
01:03:41,829 --> 01:03:39,440
language

1555
01:03:44,069 --> 01:03:41,839
when i was 15 i was fluent in spanish

1556
01:03:45,430 --> 01:03:44,079
i'm not anymore

1557
01:03:46,950 --> 01:03:45,440
so

1558
01:03:49,670 --> 01:03:46,960
i wanted to

1559
01:03:53,990 --> 01:03:49,680
be able to speak with juan again

1560
01:03:56,630 --> 01:03:54,000
one-on-one without an interpreter

1561
01:03:59,910 --> 01:03:56,640
and so i spent six months relearning

1562
01:04:03,829 --> 01:03:59,920
enough spanish he here in san francisco

1563
01:04:05,349 --> 01:04:03,839
to to be able to just be alone with him

1564
01:04:07,349 --> 01:04:05,359
and

1565
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:07,359
explore his

1566
01:04:11,349 --> 01:04:09,599
you know his recollections

1567
01:04:13,190 --> 01:04:11,359
the reconnections of the time when we

1568
01:04:15,349 --> 01:04:13,200
were together

1569
01:04:16,549 --> 01:04:15,359
as when he was a kid

1570
01:04:19,349 --> 01:04:16,559
and then

1571
01:04:22,309 --> 01:04:19,359
his recollections of you know what his

1572
01:04:25,109 --> 01:04:22,319
life has been since then and how it had

1573
01:04:27,349 --> 01:04:25,119
impacted him because i i didn't want i

1574
01:04:29,029 --> 01:04:27,359
trusted the you know the interpreters we

1575
01:04:31,349 --> 01:04:29,039
had with us of course

1576
01:04:32,950 --> 01:04:31,359
including the man who made the movie who

1577
01:04:35,910 --> 01:04:32,960
is

1578
01:04:37,910 --> 01:04:35,920
very very attentive to to the human side

1579
01:04:40,710 --> 01:04:37,920
of all this but

1580
01:04:41,510 --> 01:04:40,720
i just wanted us to be alone together

1581
01:04:46,390 --> 01:04:41,520
and

1582
01:04:48,789 --> 01:04:46,400
uh

1583
01:04:52,710 --> 01:04:48,799
you know it was probably the the high

1584
01:04:56,230 --> 01:04:52,720
point of of being back at the site

1585
01:05:00,870 --> 01:04:58,230
yeah chuck i mean i i have to thank you

1586
01:05:03,910 --> 01:05:00,880
for doing that because i think the the

1587
01:05:07,109 --> 01:05:03,920
witness or the observer in these cases

1588
01:05:09,589 --> 01:05:07,119
uh often get uh overlooked by you know

1589
01:05:12,150 --> 01:05:09,599
everyone wants data obviously that makes

1590
01:05:13,829 --> 01:05:12,160
perfect sense and we want documents but

1591
01:05:16,630 --> 01:05:13,839
we would be nothing without the

1592
01:05:18,309 --> 01:05:16,640
witnesses to these experiences they

1593
01:05:20,870 --> 01:05:18,319
ultimately become a part of the data

1594
01:05:24,150 --> 01:05:20,880
their testimony is vital in

1595
01:05:26,950 --> 01:05:24,160
trying to craft a case and investigate

1596
01:05:29,670 --> 01:05:26,960
it and with someone like juan i mean

1597
01:05:31,589 --> 01:05:29,680
it's so obvious how much this impacted

1598
01:05:33,829 --> 01:05:31,599
his life and made him a

1599
01:05:36,549 --> 01:05:33,839
you know he felt alone he he felt like

1600
01:05:38,549 --> 01:05:36,559
he had no one to turn to and um i i

1601
01:05:41,750 --> 01:05:38,559
really respect that you were willing to

1602
01:05:44,549 --> 01:05:41,760
again re-learn his language go there

1603
01:05:47,349 --> 01:05:44,559
speak to him in his native language to

1604
01:05:49,349 --> 01:05:47,359
uh show him how much you actually care

1605
01:05:51,510 --> 01:05:49,359
about this case and what this has done

1606
01:05:53,670 --> 01:05:51,520
to him it's it's a powerful film and

1607
01:05:56,470 --> 01:05:53,680
it's a powerful investigation no one

1608
01:05:58,789 --> 01:05:56,480
says you know and to be there to radiate

1609
01:06:00,549 --> 01:05:58,799
the emotions and i mean you can see him

1610
01:06:03,589 --> 01:06:00,559
crying on one of the

1611
01:06:07,190 --> 01:06:05,349
the

1612
01:06:09,430 --> 01:06:07,200
that's you know

1613
01:06:12,789 --> 01:06:09,440
let's go back to what's happening now

1614
01:06:15,750 --> 01:06:12,799
with all the cases that people see on tv

1615
01:06:16,789 --> 01:06:15,760
are military cases american

1616
01:06:19,670 --> 01:06:16,799
cases

1617
01:06:21,990 --> 01:06:19,680
and yes i know there is

1618
01:06:24,470 --> 01:06:22,000
great value in that because

1619
01:06:27,510 --> 01:06:24,480
you know these people are very highly

1620
01:06:31,109 --> 01:06:27,520
trained i have enormous respect for you

1621
01:06:34,230 --> 01:06:31,119
know f-18 pilots like uh some of whom i

1622
01:06:35,829 --> 01:06:34,240
you know i've worked with on the fives

1623
01:06:37,829 --> 01:06:35,839
um

1624
01:06:40,150 --> 01:06:37,839
they they are extraordinary men and

1625
01:06:42,309 --> 01:06:40,160
women extraordinary observers i mean

1626
01:06:46,230 --> 01:06:42,319
their life depends on it and they've

1627
01:06:48,390 --> 01:06:46,240
proven it you know in their career so

1628
01:06:50,710 --> 01:06:48,400
their testimony is precious

1629
01:06:51,589 --> 01:06:50,720
they also have instruments that are have

1630
01:06:52,710 --> 01:06:51,599
been

1631
01:06:55,349 --> 01:06:52,720
you know

1632
01:06:57,349 --> 01:06:55,359
developed for combat that are

1633
01:06:58,470 --> 01:06:57,359
extraordinary instruments so we can

1634
01:07:01,349 --> 01:06:58,480
document

1635
01:07:02,069 --> 01:07:01,359
things that otherwise we would lose okay

1636
01:07:04,470 --> 01:07:02,079
so

1637
01:07:07,029 --> 01:07:04,480
yes it's extraordinary value especially

1638
01:07:09,430 --> 01:07:07,039
it's coordinated with radar and all

1639
01:07:11,670 --> 01:07:09,440
kinds of other things satellites

1640
01:07:12,470 --> 01:07:11,680
so we we have a

1641
01:07:15,670 --> 01:07:12,480
a

1642
01:07:19,190 --> 01:07:15,680
but

1643
01:07:21,270 --> 01:07:19,200
you know a little kid on the farm

1644
01:07:23,349 --> 01:07:21,280
is is a

1645
01:07:25,190 --> 01:07:23,359
formidable

1646
01:07:28,150 --> 01:07:25,200
noticing instrument

1647
01:07:30,069 --> 01:07:28,160
i mean the kids at trinity had

1648
01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:30,079
binoculars with them

1649
01:07:35,270 --> 01:07:32,160
they they had high

1650
01:07:38,789 --> 01:07:35,280
you know high value binoculars not a dry

1651
01:07:40,950 --> 01:07:38,799
binocular because the the ranch is

1652
01:07:43,670 --> 01:07:40,960
you know is very very large

1653
01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:43,680
and they have to read the they have to

1654
01:07:47,910 --> 01:07:46,000
look at the cattle from the distance the

1655
01:07:50,789 --> 01:07:47,920
cattle is going to be scattered over the

1656
01:07:53,349 --> 01:07:50,799
ranch they they have to count the you

1657
01:07:56,069 --> 01:07:53,359
know the cattle and they have to get a

1658
01:07:58,470 --> 01:07:56,079
precise cow because it could be a stray

1659
01:08:00,230 --> 01:07:58,480
animal from another ranch they have to

1660
01:08:03,589 --> 01:08:00,240
recognize the brands

1661
01:08:06,390 --> 01:08:03,599
on the animals and you know you do that

1662
01:08:07,750 --> 01:08:06,400
with a high-powered camera so when when

1663
01:08:10,870 --> 01:08:07,760
this happened

1664
01:08:13,430 --> 01:08:10,880
they were following the the army

1665
01:08:16,870 --> 01:08:13,440
recovery of the

1666
01:08:20,789 --> 01:08:16,880
avocado you know from a distance hidden

1667
01:08:21,829 --> 01:08:20,799
behind the cactus with their binoculars

1668
01:08:24,470 --> 01:08:21,839
they

1669
01:08:25,669 --> 01:08:24,480
these kids grew up i mean i grew up in

1670
01:08:28,309 --> 01:08:25,679
the country

1671
01:08:31,189 --> 01:08:28,319
and you know i i was a pretty good

1672
01:08:33,510 --> 01:08:31,199
observer of of country life

1673
01:08:35,749 --> 01:08:33,520
i mean you know you you grow up in the

1674
01:08:36,470 --> 01:08:35,759
fields you grow up around farms you grow

1675
01:08:38,390 --> 01:08:36,480
up

1676
01:08:41,110 --> 01:08:38,400
around that even you know

1677
01:08:43,430 --> 01:08:41,120
though i lived in the town but i was i

1678
01:08:45,990 --> 01:08:43,440
was off and gone you know in the

1679
01:08:48,149 --> 01:08:46,000
countryside now there are lots of things

1680
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:48,159
that you know you take a scientist from

1681
01:08:52,229 --> 01:08:50,400
a university and you send him in the

1682
01:08:54,950 --> 01:08:52,239
middle of you know in the middle of

1683
01:08:57,829 --> 01:08:54,960
kansas he's going to miss a lot of

1684
01:08:58,789 --> 01:08:57,839
things that the local farmer is going to

1685
01:09:00,470 --> 01:08:58,799
notice

1686
01:09:02,390 --> 01:09:00,480
you know about the

1687
01:09:05,349 --> 01:09:02,400
you know the color of the vegetation

1688
01:09:08,229 --> 01:09:05,359
about the the rain patterns about the

1689
01:09:10,229 --> 01:09:08,239
clouds about about all of that about the

1690
01:09:12,470 --> 01:09:10,239
behavior of the birds

1691
01:09:14,229 --> 01:09:12,480
that you know a scientist from stanford

1692
01:09:15,189 --> 01:09:14,239
isn't going to know

1693
01:09:18,470 --> 01:09:15,199
so

1694
01:09:20,709 --> 01:09:18,480
those kids and kids especially i mean

1695
01:09:23,349 --> 01:09:20,719
any psychologist will tell you

1696
01:09:24,950 --> 01:09:23,359
that in a in a car accident or an

1697
01:09:27,590 --> 01:09:24,960
aircraft accident

1698
01:09:30,550 --> 01:09:27,600
the kids are likely to give you the best

1699
01:09:31,749 --> 01:09:30,560
testimony because it's not colored by

1700
01:09:34,470 --> 01:09:31,759
their

1701
01:09:36,550 --> 01:09:34,480
adult interpretation of the event

1702
01:09:38,789 --> 01:09:36,560
they'll correct it they will tell you

1703
01:09:41,189 --> 01:09:38,799
exactly what happened

1704
01:09:42,789 --> 01:09:41,199
and it may be covered by emotion and all

1705
01:09:43,990 --> 01:09:42,799
that of course but

1706
01:09:46,950 --> 01:09:44,000
but the

1707
01:09:49,269 --> 01:09:46,960
the testimony has special value

1708
01:09:51,829 --> 01:09:49,279
you know with good

1709
01:09:54,630 --> 01:09:51,839
kids who are good observers and that's

1710
01:09:56,870 --> 01:09:54,640
what we have at trinity you know

1711
01:09:59,270 --> 01:09:56,880
and uh that's what we have in so many

1712
01:10:02,709 --> 01:09:59,280
other cases and that's what we had with

1713
01:10:05,030 --> 01:10:02,719
with juan in argentina when we when you

1714
01:10:07,590 --> 01:10:05,040
see him later in life

1715
01:10:08,790 --> 01:10:07,600
you know in his 50s with his

1716
01:10:11,910 --> 01:10:08,800
dogs

1717
01:10:13,030 --> 01:10:11,920
and you know with his um

1718
01:10:16,149 --> 01:10:13,040
uh

1719
01:10:16,870 --> 01:10:16,159
you know the animals around him you know

1720
01:10:24,229 --> 01:10:16,880
he

1721
01:10:26,709 --> 01:10:24,239
uh you know by

1722
01:10:29,110 --> 01:10:26,719
as a result of the movie he was living

1723
01:10:32,310 --> 01:10:29,120
alone on his own farm

1724
01:10:34,709 --> 01:10:32,320
with with the animals and it's very

1725
01:10:37,590 --> 01:10:34,719
extraordinary when you see the you know

1726
01:10:39,590 --> 01:10:37,600
his relationship it's closeness with

1727
01:10:41,430 --> 01:10:39,600
with the animals there and with with the

1728
01:10:42,310 --> 01:10:41,440
dog

1729
01:10:45,910 --> 01:10:42,320
yeah

1730
01:10:48,550 --> 01:10:45,920
missing

1731
01:10:50,790 --> 01:10:48,560
right exactly jacques and you know the

1732
01:10:53,350 --> 01:10:50,800
fact that he found his tribe finally

1733
01:10:55,189 --> 01:10:53,360
found his people i think is rewarding

1734
01:10:57,669 --> 01:10:55,199
enough even though he may never truly

1735
01:10:59,669 --> 01:10:57,679
know what it was he encountered uh the

1736
01:11:02,950 --> 01:10:59,679
fact that ellen stephen the filmmaker

1737
01:11:05,590 --> 01:11:02,960
and and yourself put so much care into

1738
01:11:07,430 --> 01:11:05,600
just trying to find this guy closure uh

1739
01:11:09,669 --> 01:11:07,440
is rewarding enough and i think it was

1740
01:11:11,669 --> 01:11:09,679
for viewers of the documentary and i

1741
01:11:14,070 --> 01:11:11,679
hope it was for you as an investigator

1742
01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:14,080
on this case as well knowing how much

1743
01:11:18,630 --> 01:11:16,320
you actually helped this individual no

1744
01:11:21,430 --> 01:11:18,640
way that either that that case in

1745
01:11:24,550 --> 01:11:21,440
argentina or the case in trinity uh

1746
01:11:26,790 --> 01:11:24,560
wouldn't change me you know in

1747
01:11:29,030 --> 01:11:26,800
a fairly profound ways

1748
01:11:31,189 --> 01:11:29,040
but

1749
01:11:33,750 --> 01:11:31,199
you know i'll tell you one thing and

1750
01:11:36,310 --> 01:11:33,760
you when you approach a witness

1751
01:11:39,189 --> 01:11:36,320
as as we did recently and we thought we

1752
01:11:41,110 --> 01:11:39,199
were done essentially with the book when

1753
01:11:42,390 --> 01:11:41,120
we published the first edition with

1754
01:11:44,070 --> 01:11:42,400
powell

1755
01:11:46,790 --> 01:11:44,080
and we found

1756
01:11:48,790 --> 01:11:46,800
this additional witness

1757
01:11:51,590 --> 01:11:48,800
told him we wanted to talk about that

1758
01:11:54,950 --> 01:11:51,600
time and what happened after that

1759
01:11:57,590 --> 01:11:54,960
he brings up pictures of the kids that

1760
01:11:59,750 --> 01:11:57,600
have died

1761
01:12:01,350 --> 01:11:59,760
that's what he wants us to see

1762
01:12:03,750 --> 01:12:01,360
you know he doesn't

1763
01:12:06,070 --> 01:12:03,760
you know yeah we can talk about

1764
01:12:08,950 --> 01:12:06,080
you know the materials and so on

1765
01:12:11,990 --> 01:12:08,960
can talk about the case but

1766
01:12:14,470 --> 01:12:12,000
what that family remembers is you know

1767
01:12:16,550 --> 01:12:14,480
the daughter who died at 18 from

1768
01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:16,560
radiation poisoning

1769
01:12:33,590 --> 01:12:17,760
the

1770
01:12:36,470 --> 01:12:33,600
know it collects

1771
01:12:38,550 --> 01:12:36,480
rain water well it connected rain water

1772
01:12:40,950 --> 01:12:38,560
with plutonium

1773
01:12:43,669 --> 01:12:40,960
and they kept on drinking

1774
01:12:45,030 --> 01:12:43,679
that you know the first bomb

1775
01:12:46,310 --> 01:12:45,040
wasn't

1776
01:12:48,229 --> 01:12:46,320
very good

1777
01:12:50,070 --> 01:12:48,239
you know i mean it didn't consume all

1778
01:12:52,229 --> 01:12:50,080
the plutonium

1779
01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:52,239
now that's not something i learned in

1780
01:12:55,669 --> 01:12:54,000
school that's not something in their

1781
01:12:57,990 --> 01:12:55,679
history books

1782
01:12:59,590 --> 01:12:58,000
you you know you you go to new mexico

1783
01:13:02,390 --> 01:12:59,600
you talk to people and you're going to

1784
01:13:05,350 --> 01:13:02,400
learn a lot of things about that bomb

1785
01:13:08,630 --> 01:13:05,360
for one thing it wasn't a test

1786
01:13:12,149 --> 01:13:08,640
there is no way to test an atom

1787
01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:12,159
you know a test in physics is you take a

1788
01:13:16,550 --> 01:13:14,400
a little crucible and you put something

1789
01:13:18,950 --> 01:13:16,560
in it and you drop some chemical and

1790
01:13:21,669 --> 01:13:18,960
then you observe the reaction and if the

1791
01:13:24,550 --> 01:13:21,679
reaction is what you think you can take

1792
01:13:26,790 --> 01:13:24,560
a patent on the process and then you you

1793
01:13:28,870 --> 01:13:26,800
will sell it to an industrial firm that

1794
01:13:31,430 --> 01:13:28,880
will do it in you know in big quality

1795
01:13:33,830 --> 01:13:31,440
days so on that's what the test the

1796
01:13:35,590 --> 01:13:33,840
physics test is from okay it's an

1797
01:13:39,750 --> 01:13:35,600
experiment

1798
01:13:41,990 --> 01:13:39,760
either it works so it doesn't

1799
01:13:44,229 --> 01:13:42,000
you know the atom bomb that trinity was

1800
01:13:47,189 --> 01:13:44,239
fault times with power that they had

1801
01:13:50,470 --> 01:13:47,199
computed enrico fermi was there at the

1802
01:13:53,350 --> 01:13:50,480
site watching the explosion taking notes

1803
01:13:55,990 --> 01:13:53,360
and he quickly computed the total power

1804
01:13:57,750 --> 01:13:56,000
um you know i mean he was nobel prize in

1805
01:14:00,470 --> 01:13:57,760
physics

1806
01:14:03,669 --> 01:14:00,480
and the the power was four times what

1807
01:14:08,070 --> 01:14:05,590
they

1808
01:14:11,110 --> 01:14:08,080
realized that

1809
01:14:13,830 --> 01:14:11,120
some of the plutonium fell back on that

1810
01:14:16,390 --> 01:14:13,840
part of new mexico driven by the wind

1811
01:14:19,189 --> 01:14:16,400
over the places where these witnesses

1812
01:14:21,990 --> 01:14:19,199
lived with their families who had not

1813
01:14:23,750 --> 01:14:22,000
been evacuated

1814
01:14:25,830 --> 01:14:23,760
they were

1815
01:14:28,470 --> 01:14:25,840
you know there were strategic

1816
01:14:31,110 --> 01:14:28,480
excuses for that okay

1817
01:14:33,430 --> 01:14:31,120
but there was no strategic excuse once

1818
01:14:37,590 --> 01:14:33,440
bone was unveiled when the bomb had

1819
01:14:40,149 --> 01:14:37,600
blown up for not telling the people look

1820
01:14:42,950 --> 01:14:40,159
kill the cows don't sell them

1821
01:14:45,510 --> 01:14:42,960
don't put them on the market

1822
01:14:48,870 --> 01:14:45,520
you know we'll buy your cows

1823
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:48,880
and you'll kill them and bury them

1824
01:14:53,510 --> 01:14:51,600
uh you know that they describe the cows

1825
01:14:56,390 --> 01:14:53,520
what happened to those animals you know

1826
01:14:58,950 --> 01:14:56,400
when they uh all that is in the in in

1827
01:15:02,390 --> 01:14:58,960
the book uh it's not just a book about

1828
01:15:04,630 --> 01:15:02,400
ufos it's a book about human history to

1829
01:15:06,950 --> 01:15:04,640
the credit of

1830
01:15:09,590 --> 01:15:06,960
you know of the army they never blew up

1831
01:15:11,590 --> 01:15:09,600
another atom bomb in new mexico

1832
01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:11,600
you know that everything was moved to

1833
01:15:17,189 --> 01:15:13,840
the nevada test site where there was

1834
01:15:19,350 --> 01:15:17,199
nobody and they could control you know a

1835
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:19,360
very very large area

1836
01:15:23,110 --> 01:15:21,360
but the

1837
01:15:25,830 --> 01:15:23,120
um

1838
01:15:29,350 --> 01:15:28,390
the other thing was the fact that

1839
01:15:32,950 --> 01:15:29,360
um

1840
01:15:33,990 --> 01:15:32,960
the kids uh grew up in that environment

1841
01:15:35,830 --> 01:15:34,000
and

1842
01:15:38,870 --> 01:15:35,840
you know the kids died when they were

1843
01:15:40,870 --> 01:15:38,880
teenagers and their families were

1844
01:15:42,630 --> 01:15:40,880
lost all their kids

1845
01:15:45,189 --> 01:15:42,640
and the people who survived couldn't

1846
01:15:47,510 --> 01:15:45,199
have kids of their own

1847
01:15:52,709 --> 01:15:49,669
you know that that whole part of the

1848
01:15:55,030 --> 01:15:52,719
history isn't told anywhere

1849
01:15:59,910 --> 01:15:55,040
what happened in japan

1850
01:16:02,870 --> 01:15:59,920
i found in recent history books

1851
01:16:03,910 --> 01:16:02,880
written from a japanese perspective

1852
01:16:08,070 --> 01:16:03,920
that

1853
01:16:09,990 --> 01:16:08,080
just changed the history completely now

1854
01:16:13,270 --> 01:16:10,000
the archives were

1855
01:16:15,270 --> 01:16:13,280
under wraps for 50 years not because of

1856
01:16:17,110 --> 01:16:15,280
secret necessarily

1857
01:16:20,390 --> 01:16:17,120
but because the archives were scattered

1858
01:16:22,390 --> 01:16:20,400
everywhere and it took time for you know

1859
01:16:24,470 --> 01:16:22,400
the documentation to be

1860
01:16:26,870 --> 01:16:24,480
put together in one place

1861
01:16:28,950 --> 01:16:26,880
or in just a few places where historians

1862
01:16:31,750 --> 01:16:28,960
could have access to it and could start

1863
01:16:34,630 --> 01:16:31,760
doing their research so

1864
01:16:37,189 --> 01:16:34,640
50 years after trinity there were books

1865
01:16:38,790 --> 01:16:37,199
that started coming out based on the

1866
01:16:41,669 --> 01:16:38,800
real archives

1867
01:16:44,550 --> 01:16:41,679
and now we can know the real history the

1868
01:16:47,430 --> 01:16:44,560
real history is not what i learned in

1869
01:16:50,550 --> 01:16:47,440
physics and it's not what i learned in

1870
01:16:52,470 --> 01:16:51,350
the

1871
01:16:55,910 --> 01:16:52,480
american

1872
01:16:58,550 --> 01:16:55,920
didn't want to use vietnam in japan

1873
01:17:00,229 --> 01:16:58,560
eisenhower generalizing our

1874
01:17:02,390 --> 01:17:00,239
general marshall

1875
01:17:03,510 --> 01:17:02,400
went to the white house to talk to harry

1876
01:17:05,990 --> 01:17:03,520
truman

1877
01:17:08,790 --> 01:17:06,000
telling him that it would be terrible to

1878
01:17:11,110 --> 01:17:08,800
use remote i mean they by then they knew

1879
01:17:14,310 --> 01:17:11,120
you know what the bomb could do

1880
01:17:18,149 --> 01:17:14,320
um they knew it was proven

1881
01:17:21,030 --> 01:17:18,159
and they they they said we should not

1882
01:17:23,830 --> 01:17:21,040
start using it in war because if we do

1883
01:17:25,590 --> 01:17:23,840
we know the soviet union is close i mean

1884
01:17:26,709 --> 01:17:25,600
they are just as good in physics as we

1885
01:17:28,830 --> 01:17:26,719
are

1886
01:17:31,430 --> 01:17:28,840
we know germany is

1887
01:17:33,350 --> 01:17:31,440
close that those secrets are going to

1888
01:17:35,750 --> 01:17:33,360
come out other countries will have the

1889
01:17:37,430 --> 01:17:35,760
bomb in a few years the same moment we

1890
01:17:41,110 --> 01:17:37,440
do

1891
01:17:45,990 --> 01:17:41,120
and and then you know we'll lose control

1892
01:17:47,430 --> 01:17:46,000
of of um history

1893
01:17:49,510 --> 01:17:47,440
and

1894
01:17:52,070 --> 01:17:49,520
they wanted to go on with a conventional

1895
01:17:53,350 --> 01:17:52,080
war in japan

1896
01:17:59,910 --> 01:17:53,360
the

1897
01:18:03,110 --> 01:17:59,920
pentagon

1898
01:18:09,510 --> 01:18:07,510
500 000 purple hull decorations

1899
01:18:13,990 --> 01:18:09,520
the purple health in the american army

1900
01:18:18,550 --> 01:18:14,950
after

1901
01:18:21,990 --> 01:18:18,560
her husband has been killed in battle

1902
01:18:23,990 --> 01:18:22,000
500 000 is what they expected to lose

1903
01:18:25,510 --> 01:18:24,000
in the offensive against japan at the

1904
01:18:28,550 --> 01:18:25,520
end of world war ii

1905
01:18:30,390 --> 01:18:28,560
if they didn't choose football

1906
01:18:32,709 --> 01:18:30,400
harry truman

1907
01:18:36,470 --> 01:18:32,719
you know a

1908
01:18:38,390 --> 01:18:36,480
small-scale businessman from kansas

1909
01:18:39,750 --> 01:18:38,400
a good politician but

1910
01:18:42,229 --> 01:18:39,760
you know he was essentially a

1911
01:18:45,590 --> 01:18:42,239
businessman from kansas

1912
01:18:48,870 --> 01:18:45,600
but alone made the decision to use

1913
01:18:51,990 --> 01:18:48,880
he said i cannot sacrifice

1914
01:18:56,709 --> 01:18:52,000
you know half a million american kids

1915
01:19:03,110 --> 01:18:58,870
but he did that over

1916
01:19:05,189 --> 01:19:03,120
the request of the american army

1917
01:19:06,070 --> 01:19:05,199
now you're not going to find that then

1918
01:19:08,390 --> 01:19:06,080
people

1919
01:19:10,390 --> 01:19:08,400
in france wouldn't believe that you know

1920
01:19:11,990 --> 01:19:10,400
they believe the americans were a bunch

1921
01:19:14,229 --> 01:19:12,000
of cowboys who

1922
01:19:16,470 --> 01:19:14,239
wanted to use a bomb everywhere but

1923
01:19:19,189 --> 01:19:16,480
that's not true

1924
01:19:22,630 --> 01:19:19,199
the the bomb at trinity

1925
01:19:26,070 --> 01:19:22,640
made a lot of damage because it was they

1926
01:19:27,510 --> 01:19:26,080
realized it was blown up at ground level

1927
01:19:29,750 --> 01:19:27,520
you know you have the pictures of that

1928
01:19:31,750 --> 01:19:29,760
tower that i put in the book okay

1929
01:19:34,310 --> 01:19:31,760
there's a tower that's about 20 feet

1930
01:19:36,390 --> 01:19:34,320
high and there's a bomb on top and the

1931
01:19:38,470 --> 01:19:36,400
bomb blew up and i've i've gone there

1932
01:19:40,390 --> 01:19:38,480
i've gone to the trinity side

1933
01:19:41,189 --> 01:19:40,400
with with power

1934
01:19:48,550 --> 01:19:41,199
the

1935
01:19:51,110 --> 01:19:48,560
still see in new mexico you know i mean

1936
01:19:53,030 --> 01:19:51,120
the stunted growth of the uh of the

1937
01:19:55,510 --> 01:19:53,040
vegetation and so it's still there i

1938
01:19:58,630 --> 01:19:55,520
mean there there are no big there is no

1939
01:20:01,110 --> 01:19:58,640
big cactus in in that area within miles

1940
01:20:02,149 --> 01:20:01,120
and miles of the trinity side

1941
01:20:05,270 --> 01:20:02,159
so

1942
01:20:07,110 --> 01:20:05,280
that that bomb did a lot of damage that

1943
01:20:08,709 --> 01:20:07,120
you didn't need

1944
01:20:10,790 --> 01:20:08,719
in war

1945
01:20:12,630 --> 01:20:10,800
you don't need the radioactivity i mean

1946
01:20:15,350 --> 01:20:12,640
the radioactivity is going to kill a lot

1947
01:20:17,590 --> 01:20:15,360
of people but basically what you want is

1948
01:20:19,110 --> 01:20:17,600
the heat and the

1949
01:20:21,110 --> 01:20:19,120
force of the will

1950
01:20:24,229 --> 01:20:21,120
is going to destroy

1951
01:20:27,110 --> 01:20:24,239
any structure okay that's the purpose

1952
01:20:29,270 --> 01:20:27,120
the purpose isn't necessarily to

1953
01:20:31,189 --> 01:20:29,280
you know expose people to atomic

1954
01:20:33,750 --> 01:20:31,199
radiation

1955
01:20:35,430 --> 01:20:33,760
which is something i hadn't

1956
01:20:37,510 --> 01:20:35,440
you know i knew

1957
01:20:39,750 --> 01:20:37,520
but i really hadn't

1958
01:20:42,870 --> 01:20:39,760
felt deeply about it

1959
01:20:45,510 --> 01:20:42,880
the bomb that they dropped on hiroshima

1960
01:20:49,030 --> 01:20:45,520
had been readjusted

1961
01:20:52,550 --> 01:20:49,040
to blow up 2 000 feet high

1962
01:20:55,270 --> 01:20:52,560
to minimize the radioactivity

1963
01:20:56,870 --> 01:20:55,280
at hero ship i don't think the japanese

1964
01:20:58,390 --> 01:20:56,880
know that

1965
01:21:01,270 --> 01:20:58,400
the same thing

1966
01:21:02,870 --> 01:21:01,280
you know uh at nagasaki

1967
01:21:05,830 --> 01:21:02,880
what they wanted was a physical

1968
01:21:07,590 --> 01:21:05,840
destruction of the town and all the

1969
01:21:09,830 --> 01:21:07,600
military structures

1970
01:21:12,390 --> 01:21:09,840
you know especially at nagasaki

1971
01:21:15,030 --> 01:21:12,400
hiroshima wasn't much of a

1972
01:21:17,189 --> 01:21:15,040
military site but they had a choice of

1973
01:21:19,350 --> 01:21:17,199
about a dozen targets

1974
01:21:21,030 --> 01:21:19,360
and they made the decision

1975
01:21:23,669 --> 01:21:21,040
actually when the bombers were already

1976
01:21:26,870 --> 01:21:25,590
based on the weather

1977
01:21:28,870 --> 01:21:26,880
because they wanted to be able to

1978
01:21:31,189 --> 01:21:28,880
document the effect

1979
01:21:32,149 --> 01:21:31,199
so they wanted a clear sky over the

1980
01:21:39,430 --> 01:21:32,159
target

1981
01:21:42,070 --> 01:21:39,440
because the weather was clear over here

1982
01:21:45,030 --> 01:21:42,080
you know that's those are the

1983
01:21:45,830 --> 01:21:45,040
you know i learned as many things that

1984
01:21:49,669 --> 01:21:45,840
have

1985
01:21:51,270 --> 01:21:49,679
impacted me impacted my you know my life

1986
01:21:55,110 --> 01:21:51,280
at this stage

1987
01:21:56,790 --> 01:21:55,120
of my life uh about the war and about

1988
01:21:58,790 --> 01:21:56,800
the thinking of the pentagon the

1989
01:22:01,910 --> 01:21:58,800
thinking of the scientists

1990
01:22:03,910 --> 01:22:01,920
and and the army at the end of world war

1991
01:22:05,510 --> 01:22:03,920
ii and i i thought i understood where i

1992
01:22:07,669 --> 01:22:05,520
walked too you know

1993
01:22:11,830 --> 01:22:07,679
i was five by the end of world war ii i

1994
01:22:15,510 --> 01:22:11,840
remember the combat you know over

1995
01:22:17,590 --> 01:22:15,520
over my my town my town was bombed 16

1996
01:22:20,149 --> 01:22:17,600
times

1997
01:22:22,229 --> 01:22:20,159
so i you know i remember the war i saw

1998
01:22:23,350 --> 01:22:22,239
the wall

1999
01:22:25,110 --> 01:22:23,360
so

2000
01:22:26,470 --> 01:22:25,120
um

2001
01:22:27,750 --> 01:22:26,480
i think that's

2002
01:22:29,910 --> 01:22:27,760
probably

2003
01:22:33,669 --> 01:22:29,920
part of the contribution of our book

2004
01:22:34,550 --> 01:22:33,679
that paula and i are most proud of

2005
01:22:36,470 --> 01:22:34,560
is

2006
01:22:39,590 --> 01:22:36,480
putting it back in

2007
01:22:43,590 --> 01:22:39,600
you know what we learned about that so

2008
01:22:45,910 --> 01:22:43,600
if if all the ufo cases 10 of them are

2009
01:22:47,910 --> 01:22:45,920
documented by the military

2010
01:22:51,189 --> 01:22:47,920
where's the other 90

2011
01:22:53,669 --> 01:22:51,199
that is unclassified anybody can go

2012
01:22:56,229 --> 01:22:53,679
and talk to mr padilla you know anybody

2013
01:22:59,110 --> 01:22:56,239
can go and talk to juan perez in

2014
01:23:00,629 --> 01:22:59,120
argentina you know he'll

2015
01:23:02,470 --> 01:23:00,639
he'll be glad to

2016
01:23:04,390 --> 01:23:02,480
see you or give you a cup of very good

2017
01:23:05,350 --> 01:23:04,400
coffee you know

2018
01:23:06,470 --> 01:23:05,360
better

2019
01:23:08,709 --> 01:23:06,480
yeah

2020
01:23:09,669 --> 01:23:08,719
you know in san francisco so

2021
01:23:10,709 --> 01:23:09,679
uh

2022
01:23:12,550 --> 01:23:10,719
the

2023
01:23:15,030 --> 01:23:12,560
you don't need that you know a high

2024
01:23:17,510 --> 01:23:15,040
clearance to do this work you just need

2025
01:23:18,390 --> 01:23:17,520
to listen to people

2026
01:23:20,950 --> 01:23:18,400
yeah

2027
01:23:22,550 --> 01:23:20,960
i know i people would just listen more

2028
01:23:25,750 --> 01:23:22,560
shock i think we'd be in a much better

2029
01:23:28,070 --> 01:23:25,760
place in the ufo field and in humanity

2030
01:23:30,149 --> 01:23:28,080
in general um to kind of i guess wrap

2031
01:23:33,110 --> 01:23:30,159
things up shock you've been so gracious

2032
01:23:34,550 --> 01:23:33,120
with your time um and i have a million

2033
01:23:37,189 --> 01:23:34,560
listener questions but we'll have to

2034
01:23:39,510 --> 01:23:37,199
have you back another time for that um

2035
01:23:43,110 --> 01:23:39,520
we covered what i wanted to cover this

2036
01:23:47,110 --> 01:23:43,120
stuff so i do appreciate that

2037
01:23:49,350 --> 01:23:47,120
um but to to wrap things up chuck uh

2038
01:23:52,629 --> 01:23:49,360
uh some of the proceeds for your book

2039
01:23:53,590 --> 01:23:52,639
actually are going to a very special um

2040
01:23:56,149 --> 01:23:53,600
you know

2041
01:23:57,669 --> 01:23:56,159
reason uh or charity would you mind

2042
01:23:59,830 --> 01:23:57,679
sharing that with us

2043
01:24:01,669 --> 01:23:59,840
well as as a result of the latest

2044
01:24:05,830 --> 01:24:01,679
interviews with them

2045
01:24:06,870 --> 01:24:05,840
we've realized that yes people remember

2046
01:24:09,910 --> 01:24:06,880
you know

2047
01:24:11,750 --> 01:24:09,920
the avocado they remember the ufo but

2048
01:24:13,430 --> 01:24:11,760
really what they want to talk about is

2049
01:24:16,390 --> 01:24:13,440
the impact the

2050
01:24:17,990 --> 01:24:16,400
devastating impact on their families

2051
01:24:20,709 --> 01:24:18,000
that is still

2052
01:24:23,110 --> 01:24:20,719
in their heart is you know has defined

2053
01:24:25,910 --> 01:24:23,120
their life and so

2054
01:24:28,709 --> 01:24:25,920
paul and i have have decided to give

2055
01:24:31,510 --> 01:24:28,719
part of the proceeds of of the book to a

2056
01:24:32,390 --> 01:24:31,520
fund to support the witnesses of the

2057
01:24:34,229 --> 01:24:32,400
bomb

2058
01:24:36,310 --> 01:24:34,239
uh you know other

2059
01:24:37,510 --> 01:24:36,320
the bomb in new mexico

2060
01:24:39,750 --> 01:24:37,520
both the

2061
01:24:41,510 --> 01:24:39,760
um you know especially the indian

2062
01:24:43,830 --> 01:24:41,520
witnesses but the

2063
01:24:45,110 --> 01:24:43,840
you know the witnesses who were within

2064
01:24:48,550 --> 01:24:45,120
the range of

2065
01:24:50,310 --> 01:24:48,560
of the the explosion that is is yet to

2066
01:24:53,350 --> 01:24:50,320
be fully

2067
01:24:56,470 --> 01:24:53,360
documented you know and

2068
01:24:57,350 --> 01:24:56,480
and really fully um

2069
01:24:59,430 --> 01:24:57,360
uh

2070
01:25:01,510 --> 01:24:59,440
you know forgiven

2071
01:25:03,030 --> 01:25:01,520
it cannot be forgiven

2072
01:25:05,110 --> 01:25:03,040
but um

2073
01:25:07,590 --> 01:25:05,120
it can be explained

2074
01:25:09,270 --> 01:25:07,600
that there was a higher purpose and at

2075
01:25:11,590 --> 01:25:09,280
the time

2076
01:25:13,750 --> 01:25:11,600
you know project nathan was they knew

2077
01:25:16,790 --> 01:25:13,760
they were surrounded with spies with

2078
01:25:19,270 --> 01:25:16,800
german spies as we know now uh russian

2079
01:25:20,149 --> 01:25:19,280
spies as we know

2080
01:25:22,229 --> 01:25:20,159
um

2081
01:25:24,390 --> 01:25:22,239
and that they

2082
01:25:26,629 --> 01:25:24,400
the secret had to be preserved until the

2083
01:25:29,430 --> 01:25:26,639
bomb was perfected

2084
01:25:33,110 --> 01:25:29,440
because the bomb was going to save so

2085
01:25:35,270 --> 01:25:33,120
many lives and it did

2086
01:25:38,830 --> 01:25:35,280
japanese lives

2087
01:25:41,430 --> 01:25:38,840
russian lives american

2088
01:25:43,590 --> 01:25:41,440
lives you know

2089
01:25:46,390 --> 01:25:43,600
there is a scene

2090
01:25:47,830 --> 01:25:46,400
that i found in one of the history books

2091
01:25:50,470 --> 01:25:47,840
that

2092
01:25:52,470 --> 01:25:50,480
will stay with me forever and if there

2093
01:25:54,950 --> 01:25:52,480
was ever a movie

2094
01:25:58,470 --> 01:25:54,960
uh that scene should be there

2095
01:26:01,110 --> 01:25:58,480
it's a scene after nagasaki so

2096
01:26:02,070 --> 01:26:01,120
hiroshima is a bunch of radioactive

2097
01:26:04,390 --> 01:26:02,080
rubble

2098
01:26:05,350 --> 01:26:04,400
nakasaki is a bunch of radioactive

2099
01:26:07,750 --> 01:26:05,360
rubble

2100
01:26:09,510 --> 01:26:07,760
and there is a meeting

2101
01:26:13,910 --> 01:26:09,520
with the emperor

2102
01:26:15,430 --> 01:26:13,920
in the shelter under the palace in tokyo

2103
01:26:19,669 --> 01:26:15,440
it's in the middle as you know the

2104
01:26:22,470 --> 01:26:19,679
middle of august 1945

2105
01:26:23,830 --> 01:26:22,480
the japanese have lost two of their

2106
01:26:27,030 --> 01:26:23,840
large cities

2107
01:26:29,030 --> 01:26:27,040
to atomic bombs completely new weapon

2108
01:26:31,030 --> 01:26:29,040
for which there is no defense

2109
01:26:33,430 --> 01:26:31,040
at that point the u.s has control of the

2110
01:26:37,750 --> 01:26:33,440
sky complete control of the sky the

2111
01:26:43,270 --> 01:26:40,950
the the emperor calls a meeting of the

2112
01:26:44,790 --> 01:26:43,280
top military

2113
01:26:47,830 --> 01:26:44,800
officers

2114
01:26:50,790 --> 01:26:47,840
the the admirals and the generals are

2115
01:26:53,030 --> 01:26:50,800
in full uniform in that shelter

2116
01:26:56,709 --> 01:26:53,040
waiting for the emperor the emperor

2117
01:26:58,790 --> 01:26:56,719
comes in in a simple black uniform

2118
01:26:59,910 --> 01:26:58,800
sits at the hand of the table

2119
01:27:05,110 --> 01:26:59,920
and they

2120
01:27:07,270 --> 01:27:06,310
remember

2121
01:27:12,709 --> 01:27:07,280
japan

2122
01:27:15,270 --> 01:27:12,719
tradition about dying in combat the

2123
01:27:19,030 --> 01:27:15,280
samurai you know all those things that

2124
01:27:21,430 --> 01:27:19,040
we've seen in hollywood films and so on

2125
01:27:23,430 --> 01:27:21,440
they are still the product of that

2126
01:27:25,669 --> 01:27:23,440
culture which is

2127
01:27:27,990 --> 01:27:25,679
you know an admirable

2128
01:27:31,270 --> 01:27:28,000
culture

2129
01:27:33,270 --> 01:27:31,280
they want to keep fighting

2130
01:27:36,390 --> 01:27:33,280
so the americans have blown up two

2131
01:27:37,910 --> 01:27:36,400
cities with atomic

2132
01:27:39,910 --> 01:27:37,920
so what

2133
01:27:42,149 --> 01:27:39,920
how many more

2134
01:27:46,149 --> 01:27:42,159
do they have

2135
01:27:49,669 --> 01:27:46,159
now that's a question i never thought of

2136
01:27:51,510 --> 01:27:49,679
they tell the emperor you know we

2137
01:27:54,950 --> 01:27:51,520
maybe the americans have enough

2138
01:27:56,629 --> 01:27:54,960
plutonium for one moment

2139
01:27:57,590 --> 01:27:56,639
the battle

2140
01:27:59,430 --> 01:27:57,600
isn't

2141
01:28:02,149 --> 01:27:59,440
going to be at hiroshima i mean

2142
01:28:05,350 --> 01:28:02,159
hiroshima was not a strategic target

2143
01:28:09,270 --> 01:28:07,270
um

2144
01:28:12,229 --> 01:28:09,280
so

2145
01:28:13,910 --> 01:28:12,239
suppose i have one more bomb okay

2146
01:28:16,870 --> 01:28:13,920
the battle is going to be in the north

2147
01:28:19,510 --> 01:28:16,880
of japan that's where the japanese army

2148
01:28:21,750 --> 01:28:19,520
has been building fortifications

2149
01:28:24,310 --> 01:28:21,760
like the germans did in france in

2150
01:28:27,510 --> 01:28:24,320
normandy and i know you know i've seen

2151
01:28:28,709 --> 01:28:27,520
those fortifications right after the war

2152
01:28:30,390 --> 01:28:28,719
they were

2153
01:28:34,229 --> 01:28:30,400
extraordinary

2154
01:28:36,310 --> 01:28:34,239
with guns everywhere big big guns

2155
01:28:38,149 --> 01:28:36,320
and we know we know what happened at the

2156
01:28:40,229 --> 01:28:38,159
landing in normandy

2157
01:28:41,830 --> 01:28:40,239
the japanese have built the same thing

2158
01:28:45,270 --> 01:28:41,840
in the north of japan because they

2159
01:28:47,270 --> 01:28:45,280
expect an attack by the russians from

2160
01:28:50,709 --> 01:28:47,280
the north of japan

2161
01:28:53,510 --> 01:28:50,719
now far away from hiroshima and nagasaki

2162
01:28:54,790 --> 01:28:53,520
they've masked a million men in uniform

2163
01:28:57,110 --> 01:28:54,800
are waiting

2164
01:28:58,470 --> 01:28:57,120
for the russians

2165
01:28:59,830 --> 01:28:58,480
stalin

2166
01:29:02,950 --> 01:28:59,840
has been

2167
01:29:05,910 --> 01:29:02,960
has modernized his army with american

2168
01:29:07,910 --> 01:29:05,920
tanks american jeeps american cannons

2169
01:29:09,270 --> 01:29:07,920
that we gave him

2170
01:29:12,470 --> 01:29:09,280
after

2171
01:29:13,189 --> 01:29:12,480
you know the victory in berlin

2172
01:29:15,910 --> 01:29:13,199
the

2173
01:29:17,830 --> 01:29:15,920
russian army is done with germany and

2174
01:29:18,870 --> 01:29:17,840
there's nothing left in germany but

2175
01:29:21,590 --> 01:29:18,880
rubble

2176
01:29:23,669 --> 01:29:21,600
so the the ameri this the russian army

2177
01:29:27,669 --> 01:29:23,679
has been reorganized

2178
01:29:31,030 --> 01:29:27,679
resupplied by by the you know the west

2179
01:29:32,950 --> 01:29:31,040
and is sweeping through mongolia

2180
01:29:35,110 --> 01:29:32,960
sweeping from china

2181
01:29:36,790 --> 01:29:35,120
pushing the japanese back

2182
01:29:39,350 --> 01:29:36,800
to the island

2183
01:29:42,149 --> 01:29:39,360
ready to attack with a million men

2184
01:29:44,709 --> 01:29:42,159
rearmed resupplied

2185
01:29:47,350 --> 01:29:44,719
ready to attack japan from the north

2186
01:29:50,390 --> 01:29:47,360
then the american fleet of the pacific

2187
01:29:55,350 --> 01:29:51,270
with

2188
01:29:58,629 --> 01:29:56,950
what do you think is going to happen

2189
01:30:01,430 --> 01:29:58,639
where is the battle

2190
01:30:04,830 --> 01:30:01,440
i mean there is no battle at hiroshima

2191
01:30:07,350 --> 01:30:04,840
hiroshima was just just an ordinary

2192
01:30:08,470 --> 01:30:07,360
town the battle is going to be in the

2193
01:30:11,590 --> 01:30:08,480
north

2194
01:30:14,790 --> 01:30:11,600
that's what they tell the emperor

2195
01:30:15,910 --> 01:30:14,800
and yes we may die but we will die with

2196
01:30:19,510 --> 01:30:15,920
pride

2197
01:30:21,270 --> 01:30:19,520
and japan may disappear from the face up

2198
01:30:22,629 --> 01:30:21,280
here

2199
01:30:23,830 --> 01:30:22,639
proudly

2200
01:30:26,070 --> 01:30:23,840
in

2201
01:30:29,990 --> 01:30:26,080
a complete fight

2202
01:30:35,669 --> 01:30:33,030
the emperor says

2203
01:30:37,990 --> 01:30:35,679
gentlemen thank you very much for what

2204
01:30:39,270 --> 01:30:38,000
you've said

2205
01:30:42,390 --> 01:30:39,280
you should know

2206
01:30:45,510 --> 01:30:42,400
that i have sent an emissary to the

2207
01:30:49,990 --> 01:30:47,189
requesting

2208
01:30:52,470 --> 01:30:50,000
the rates of surrender

2209
01:30:56,950 --> 01:30:54,390
japan

2210
01:30:59,910 --> 01:30:56,960
i cannot allow

2211
01:31:06,550 --> 01:30:59,920
so many brave japanese to die

2212
01:31:11,910 --> 01:31:08,629
they there is nothing to say i mean the

2213
01:31:14,790 --> 01:31:11,920
emperor is the son of heaven

2214
01:31:17,590 --> 01:31:14,800
the emperor has spoken

2215
01:31:20,790 --> 01:31:17,600
i i always thought of the japanese

2216
01:31:24,629 --> 01:31:20,800
emperor as sort of a

2217
01:31:26,070 --> 01:31:24,639
you know a historical figure

2218
01:31:29,750 --> 01:31:26,080
that was

2219
01:31:32,229 --> 01:31:29,760
fascinating but was not very important

2220
01:31:35,430 --> 01:31:32,239
i completely missed

2221
01:31:36,470 --> 01:31:35,440
you know the significance of

2222
01:31:39,510 --> 01:31:36,480
uh

2223
01:31:40,950 --> 01:31:39,520
you know and the grand bear of japan as

2224
01:31:43,910 --> 01:31:40,960
an empire

2225
01:31:48,070 --> 01:31:43,920
you know up to that point and

2226
01:31:51,110 --> 01:31:48,080
the bravery and the intelligence and the

2227
01:31:54,070 --> 01:31:51,120
uh you know of of what this man

2228
01:31:56,870 --> 01:31:54,080
did again like truman he was one guy

2229
01:31:59,189 --> 01:31:56,880
okay very similar yeah he's

2230
01:32:00,709 --> 01:31:59,199
a civilian yeah

2231
01:32:03,590 --> 01:32:00,719
and the

2232
01:32:06,390 --> 01:32:03,600
the admiral of the fleet

2233
01:32:07,830 --> 01:32:06,400
gets up bows to the emperor

2234
01:32:10,950 --> 01:32:07,840
deeply

2235
01:32:14,790 --> 01:32:10,960
goes out of a room goes into his office

2236
01:32:17,350 --> 01:32:14,800
knocks the door and commits our caring

2237
01:32:19,830 --> 01:32:17,360
because he has no moral purpose for

2238
01:32:25,270 --> 01:32:21,350
two days later

2239
01:32:28,709 --> 01:32:25,280
on the deck of the uss missouri

2240
01:32:31,590 --> 01:32:28,719
the end voice of japan in in full

2241
01:32:32,709 --> 01:32:31,600
you know suits and so on

2242
01:32:34,709 --> 01:32:32,719
right

2243
01:32:37,430 --> 01:32:34,719
you know signed the document of

2244
01:32:38,390 --> 01:32:37,440
surrender with all the sailors american

2245
01:32:39,669 --> 01:32:38,400
sailors

2246
01:32:43,350 --> 01:32:39,679
in white

2247
01:32:47,350 --> 01:32:45,750
two days later

2248
01:32:49,430 --> 01:32:47,360
two little kids

2249
01:32:50,550 --> 01:32:49,440
in new mexico

2250
01:32:54,070 --> 01:32:50,560
witness

2251
01:32:55,110 --> 01:32:54,080
you know a very large oval

2252
01:32:56,070 --> 01:32:55,120
object

2253
01:32:57,990 --> 01:32:56,080
that

2254
01:33:00,550 --> 01:32:58,000
we still don't understand

2255
01:33:03,669 --> 01:33:00,560
crashing on their range

2256
01:33:05,830 --> 01:33:03,679
with three little creatures inside

2257
01:33:08,149 --> 01:33:05,840
well

2258
01:33:10,550 --> 01:33:08,159
okay i mean the historians have to take

2259
01:33:13,669 --> 01:33:10,560
it from there i mean i'm not a historian

2260
01:33:16,310 --> 01:33:13,679
i can't i i can

2261
01:33:18,390 --> 01:33:16,320
make the connection that i i think there

2262
01:33:21,350 --> 01:33:18,400
is a connection somewhere

2263
01:33:24,390 --> 01:33:21,360
again in the first few times when

2264
01:33:26,310 --> 01:33:24,400
i was called upon to tell that story i i

2265
01:33:28,709 --> 01:33:26,320
couldn't finish with story because i was

2266
01:33:31,350 --> 01:33:28,719
crying

2267
01:33:33,430 --> 01:33:31,360
well i have to thank you for sharing it

2268
01:33:35,830 --> 01:33:33,440
with a shock i mean it was very powerful

2269
01:33:38,310 --> 01:33:35,840
and again it just speaks volumes to

2270
01:33:39,510 --> 01:33:38,320
you know putting these ufo cases into

2271
01:33:41,830 --> 01:33:39,520
historical

2272
01:33:43,510 --> 01:33:41,840
perspective this is bigger than any one

2273
01:33:45,669 --> 01:33:43,520
case

2274
01:33:47,030 --> 01:33:45,679
absolutely yeah i think that's what's

2275
01:33:49,110 --> 01:33:47,040
most important

2276
01:33:51,669 --> 01:33:49,120
jacques listen you have given us way

2277
01:33:53,189 --> 01:33:51,679
more time than uh i could have ever

2278
01:33:56,070 --> 01:33:53,199
asked from you we'll have to have you

2279
01:33:57,750 --> 01:33:56,080
back to talk listener questions but um

2280
01:33:59,830 --> 01:33:57,760
are there any final words you want to

2281
01:34:01,910 --> 01:33:59,840
leave with our listeners and viewers

2282
01:34:04,950 --> 01:34:01,920
when it comes to where we're headed with

2283
01:34:06,390 --> 01:34:04,960
the entire ufo topic is there anything

2284
01:34:09,430 --> 01:34:06,400
you're really looking forward to in the

2285
01:34:11,510 --> 01:34:09,440
future of the study of this topic and uh

2286
01:34:13,750 --> 01:34:11,520
yeah yeah any last words you want to

2287
01:34:16,310 --> 01:34:13,760
leave us with i think we have to get

2288
01:34:20,149 --> 01:34:16,320
scientists involved and scientists are

2289
01:34:22,229 --> 01:34:20,159
getting involved we have to open up the

2290
01:34:25,510 --> 01:34:22,239
cases some

2291
01:34:28,229 --> 01:34:25,520
cases and some projects are legitimately

2292
01:34:30,470 --> 01:34:28,239
classified you know the database we

2293
01:34:32,470 --> 01:34:30,480
developed you know

2294
01:34:36,070 --> 01:34:32,480
under the bas project on the atic

2295
01:34:38,550 --> 01:34:36,080
project is still classified

2296
01:34:40,870 --> 01:34:38,560
i i think the database contains a lot of

2297
01:34:43,750 --> 01:34:40,880
information about medical details of

2298
01:34:46,390 --> 01:34:43,760
witnesses of families and so on that

2299
01:34:48,870 --> 01:34:46,400
should be protected so i have no problem

2300
01:34:51,030 --> 01:34:48,880
with the fact that that the database is

2301
01:34:52,790 --> 01:34:51,040
is is classified

2302
01:34:55,350 --> 01:34:52,800
there are things that

2303
01:34:57,990 --> 01:34:55,360
you know but we don't need that there is

2304
01:35:00,229 --> 01:34:58,000
so much other information that in many

2305
01:35:01,590 --> 01:35:00,239
cases is better than what the pentagon

2306
01:35:03,350 --> 01:35:01,600
has

2307
01:35:04,950 --> 01:35:03,360
so i think we should

2308
01:35:07,189 --> 01:35:04,960
enlist the

2309
01:35:10,070 --> 01:35:07,199
you know the power of science and go

2310
01:35:11,750 --> 01:35:10,080
forward with the data we

2311
01:35:13,110 --> 01:35:11,760
i love that i love that i couldn't think

2312
01:35:14,950 --> 01:35:13,120
of a better way

2313
01:35:17,430 --> 01:35:14,960
to end things shock i have to thank you

2314
01:35:19,510 --> 01:35:17,440
for your time for the invaluable work

2315
01:35:21,669 --> 01:35:19,520
you've contributed to this topic for so

2316
01:35:23,189 --> 01:35:21,679
long and uh i know it's only the

2317
01:35:25,430 --> 01:35:23,199
beginning i i feel like we're on the

2318
01:35:27,590 --> 01:35:25,440
precipice of of something big when it

2319
01:35:29,669 --> 01:35:27,600
comes to all of this and uh you are one

2320
01:35:31,510 --> 01:35:29,679
of the people we truly have to thank for

2321
01:35:33,590 --> 01:35:31,520
that so i want to thank you for coming

2322
01:35:36,690 --> 01:35:33,600
on somewhere in the skies today

2323
01:36:15,930 --> 01:35:36,700
thank you very much thank you

2324
01:36:17,620 --> 01:36:15,940
[Music]